Not An Audiophile – The Podcast featuring podcast episodes with Edgar Kramer, the highly-qualified and experienced “ear” behind Soundstage Australia HiFi reviews. In Episode 024, Edgar discusses his favourite HiFi gear, music and the fundamentals of HiFi reviewing.
Podcast transcripts below – Episode 024
Not an Audiophile speaks to hi fi reviewer Edgar Kramer from Soundstage
Edgar Kramer: Well, what I’d like to do is to clone myself and then also buy a one of those robots that Elon Musk is working on or Google or whoever and get the robot to lift the freaking amplifiers and speakers and put them in place and I’ll just, I’ll just sit, I’ll just sit on the lounge and listen to music, you know, and then write the review.
Andrew Hutchison: And welcome back to not an Audiophile. This is episode 24 of season two. Today we speak to a hi fi reviewer, Edgar Kramer. What a guy. He’s been to more factories, written more articles, listened to more equipment than most humans. This episode of not an Audiophile. The podcast is sponsored by Spectraflora. Looking for gorgeous speakers that sound as good as they look. Meet Spectraflora, Australia’s newest loudspeaker innovator. Their flagship Celata 88 is handcrafted in Victoria, Australia. With patent pending wave guide and subwoofer designs. This speaker delivers impactful, dynamic and emotionally gripping sound. Listeners rave about the beauty and breathtaking sound of the Celata 88 that makes ordinary speakers feel lifeless. Experience Spectraflora rediscover meaning in music. Learn more@spectraflora.com hey, yeah, we’re here with Edgar Kramer today from Soundstage. And when I say soundstage, I say Soundstage Australia, I guess is. That’s important.
Edgar Kramer: Important, an important distinction. Yeah, that’s quite an important distinction. Andrew. Good to be here.
Andrew Hutchison: Thank you. appreciate your time. Yeah, you have a busy schedule. you always tell me you have more things to review than you really have time.
Edgar Kramer: M. Human possibilities. Yeah, that’s right. So I’m thinking of cloning myself.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, that would be the way to do it because cloning, the cost of cloning is probably coming down and the cost of employing someone is going up. You’re guaranteed of quality and and really I think it cost hardly any more.
Edgar Kramer: Well, what I’d like to do is to clone myself and then also buy a one of those robots that Elon Musk is working on or Google or whoever and get the robot to lift a frickin amplifiers and speakers and put them in place and I’ll just, I’ll just sit, I’ll just sit on the lounge and listen to music, you know, and then write the review.
Andrew Hutchison: Actually now that, that’s the thing because I think don’t. I think most reviewers don’t have an assistant.
Edgar Kramer: That would be.
Andrew Hutchison: It would make it a much nicer job, wouldn’t it?
Edgar Kramer: Where you Just Harry Pearson had a. Harry Pearson had an assistant, apparently. And yeah, so. But I mean, you know. Yeah, I think 99.9 of reviewers nowadays don’t have an assistant and it just means that you screw up your back.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: but I enjoy doing it and whenever I can get help, I, I’ll do and. Yeah. And make it. Makes it fun.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, it must be fun. I mean, I guess. Is that, Is that why you. I mean you’ve been an enthusiast of high quality audio gear, I can only assume, for the better part of your whole life. but you might want. Is that correct? Okay.
You started writing magazine articles before you started writing online
So at what point did you sort of go sideways into you know, into deciding to write articles, which is what it was originally, because you’re old school. You go back to the days when you know, podcasts and YouTube, videos just didn’t exist and they weren’t a thing. And weren’t a thing. And. And And you were writing magazine articles.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. In print. Well, actually, actually no, I actually started online before I started on print because I. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I started writing for Six Moons.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Back in 2002, I think. yeah, 2002, 2003, when I wrote my first review for. For Six Moons. And then, 2007 I started writing for Australian hi Fi Sound and Image magazine with the. Then publisher, Horwitz.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: And that was print, obviously. and And then. Yeah. And then the world’s changed and moved on and things had developed and gone from there to predominantly online.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, things have changed, but not at Six Moons. I’m pretty sure that website is exactly the same as it was in 2002.
Edgar Kramer: Pretty much. Pretty much. I mean, Srijan runs a great website and he’s got a very successful niche.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: and he’s got a team of European, reviewers and so on. And But again, as you say, the website is an eccentricity which has been going for quite a while, without change. but yeah, he’s got a captive audience.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, the content remains, at
00:05:00
Andrew Hutchison: obviously a high quality level and the way it looks is kind of irrelevant because you’re ultimately just reading words off a page. So you know, as long as it’s legible, which it is, I guess, you know, it still performs the task. It always did.
Edgar Kramer: He uses. Yeah, he uses lots of images as well. So that complements the copy of the text.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s not as. Sorry, it’s not as pretty as your website is though, so.
Edgar Kramer: Thank you. Yeah. I must admit we have a pretty, very pretty website network.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew has never owned a Led Zeppelin album
So, so did you, when you started, did you have aspirations of, you know, journalistic skill or had you. In fact, are you. I mean, did you have any training or did you just start.
Edgar Kramer: This is the interesting thing. So I, I was a music lover. Like, if I go right back, I’ll go right back. I have two kind of epiphanies that were in my youth, in my very early years. Right when I was under. Well, one was when I was about 10 or so, and the other one was about 11 or 12.
Andrew Hutchison: Sure.
Edgar Kramer: and it was, I clearly remember as if it was like yesterday, I played. I kind of snuck. My parents were out and I kind of snuck into the, the lounge room and I had been given instructions not to ever play around with a stereo. It was a little three in one. A little three in one with detachable speakers, as if, as if that was kind of, you know, something that shouldn’t be, shouldn’t be touched. But, but anyway, little record, little turntable, built in and so on.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: And I remember putting on. I just grabbed a record, from the small collection and I played the Doors Light My Fire.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow. Okay.
Edgar Kramer: I purely, you know, coincidental. And it blew my mind. Totally blew my mind. And from then on I kept playing music and the other. So, you know, I, just kept bugging my parents to let me play the records. And soon after that, maybe a year or so after that, I played another track that made an impression. You know, I had been playing obviously lots of music in between, but nothing had hit me the same way as the Doors did and Light My Fire. And then this track from Led Zeppelin, the, Immigrant Song.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And that was another one. And that blew me away. So the power and the musicianship and the. It was an unusual, you know, that, that. Are you familiar with the song, that.
Andrew Hutchison: Screaming chorus, Led Zeppelin? Is that. I’m. I think I’m familiar with all of the, all of the fairly well known tunes, but I for the life of me have no idea what they’re called because I’m willing to make. I’m willing to make an admission, you know, publicly that I’ve never, never owned a Led Zeppelin album. Never bought one.
Edgar Kramer: Oh, Andrew. I know, I know. Podcast over.
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Edgar Kramer: That’s it. Come out.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, all right. But look, I am a huge fan of the Doors, if that kind of balances it up. But, yes.
Edgar Kramer: Oh, good. Okay. Redeeming yourself there.
Andrew Hutchison: I still, I still, having said that, I’ve never bought a Doors album either, so, there’s something. Clearly something broke these days.
Edgar Kramer: You don’t have to buy anything these days. You just stream.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, that’s the point. I mean, you know, I, when I say I, I haven’t bought one, what it means is that when I was buying CDs and albums, which is so long ago, I, I couldn’t even tell you the last CD that I bought. But I guess it was 15 odd years ago. And because I was sort of late to streaming, I had a Tidal account for a year before I even used it. That’s another story. but, yeah, I have listened to most of the Doors catalog, I guess, but I haven’t listened to much Zeppelin. and you know, clearly I’ve, I’m lacking one of the greatest. Well, yeah, in a previous podcast I was lecturing people on how they should at least know these five albums. And and here I am with zero knowledge of Led Zeppelin as far as at least the name of the tunes. So. So the Led Zeppelin track got you.
Edgar Kramer: the second boost, right? Yeah, the second boost. And then from there, obviously, as I grew up and was in my 20s and so on, I, got into audio equipment. And my first audio, system was an all Akai system with a turntable and no CD player. But then back then, and tuner and so on. Anyway, and then I got, and I’ll get, I’ll get to the question.
So the third episode. Keep going. I’ve forgotten what the question was, but I’m enjoying the story
So the third episode.
Andrew Hutchison: That’s all right. I’ve forgotten what the question was, but I’m enjoying the story. Keep going.
Edgar Kramer: How do I, how do I get in?
Andrew Hutchison: Did you think you were a journalist or you just gave a stab.
00:10:00
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Right.
Wow. Okay. So if so, in fact you really just started as a writer
Edgar Kramer: So my third epiphany. So this is all. This all leads to that. Anyway, so my third epiphany was, my uncle is or was a very, famous, conductor. And he got invited to conduct a Sydney Symphony at the Sydney Opera House.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow.
Edgar Kramer: And you know, the family went. You know, the entire family who lived in the Australian side of the family went yes, to this concert. And he conducted, Dvorak, Symphony Number nine.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: From the New World. And that was ah, another, another moment that just like triggered something, you know, My brain changed, you know, from that day. So, so from that, from, from those, those, those times, those, those triggering, sort of different as I call them, musical,
Andrew Hutchison: Discoveries.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. Music. Well, yeah, it was more than discoveries, but yeah, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Epiphanies. Yes.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, that’s right. And so that led me to pursue, the creative side of, you know, of how I want to express myself.
Andrew Hutchison: Sure.
Edgar Kramer: And I did a film, film production course. And and that led to a job in the audio industry. In the pro audio industry.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: so I had this job in the pro audio industry for several years. Eventually I actually bought the company. so of course around this company. Course, of course. Because you like it so you buy it.
Andrew Hutchison: Right.
Edgar Kramer: So I bought a company. I called it, Sound and Vision Innovators or STAVI for short.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And we provided pro audio equipment for live events and so on. And obviously that developed. We provided a lot of sound reinforcement for acoustic instruments for small, corporate functions and so on and then some bigger concert, level functions as well.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: and that kind of opened up my appetite even more for the sound of live music. soon after that I joined the Audiophile Society of New South Wales and I became the editor of the newsletter. I started writing, and then after that I started writing for six months. And by that stage I had a fairly extensive knowledge of the audio industry, the consumer high end audio industry and the sound and the tonal qualities of live instruments. And So six months, then I sold my business and I thought to myself, what the fuck am I going to do now? You know?
Andrew Hutchison: Well, one presumes have a holiday initially, but
Edgar Kramer: Well, yeah, that’s the thing. But I didn’t, I.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: I kind of became a consultant for the people that bought the company for a couple of years or so and I had to get out of there. And and then I saw an ad, for a writer in. For Australian hi Fi.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And I applied and got the job. And then the rest is history. So they became the reviews editor of Australian hi Fi magazine. Reviews editor of Sound and Image magazine. Then I launched Audio Esoterica magazine.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Yeah. Remember that?
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when, when sort of the print medium declined and more and more, I ended up kind of through some machinations, I ended up leaving and starting my own thing with Soundstage America. And Yeah. And this is how I was. I’ve done it.
Andrew Hutchison: Thank you for that, that actually now makes a great deal of sense. So if so, in fact you really just started as far as the writing side and the journalism aspect. It really started with writing the audio club newsletter.
Edgar Kramer: So, yeah, before that I used to write short stories just for fun, you know, not published short stories and some poetry and stuff. So I think I was born with some kind of writing skill.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Like a raw, A raw writing skill that I kind of polished by writing short stories and I polished it by writing poetry like I said. And so that made me. Gave me an advantage when I started writing for the Audio Society of New South Wales.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Which by a few years after I became president of. So, yeah, there was a progression and so on. Yeah.
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00:15:00
Andrew Hutchison: hey now hi fi.com au and search limetree. Hey, and we’re back with Edgar from Soundstage Australia.
Edgar Kramer: Doug Schneider is the founder of Soundstage Australia
Edgar Kramer. That is the master reviewer. the, the founder. The founder of Soundstage Australia. But how did you get started with Soundstage? Just, we’ll quickly. I’m just interested to know Doug. Doug Schneider is, is an interesting character. Did you bump into him at a show or something or.
Edgar Kramer: Oh, well, yeah, no, I. Well, I’ve known Doug for quite a while prior.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And and he had been chasing me for a while, while I was employed with the Australian publisher.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And I. And I was. To be honest, I was kind of comfortable in the bubble that I was in.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: And maybe I didn’t actually think too much about where the publishing industry was going.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Not kind of like negotiating the the future of, of. Of print publishing.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: So. So then I had an amazing trip with a, local distributor who invited me to to go to a big, huge, like a massive launch in Italy.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: Sardinia.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: Nice. For a new product. Yeah. And for Sonus Faber product. And I met Doug then and it just happened. It’s like all coincidence. It’s all sort of like just happened naturally. I happened to be sitting next to Doug and we had another. So, you know, there was like it was a table of reviewers. Michael Framer was there, Ken Kessler was there, I was there, Doug was there, and several other people. And, so again, he said, look, you know, why don’t we, you know, print is kind of dying.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, yes.
Edgar Kramer: You know, the future is online. Let’s do something. So. So. And that coincided with, some changes that were happening at the publisher. and then, yeah, I said, let’s. Let’s go. Let’s do it. This is back in 27, 2017.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Right.
Edgar Kramer: We met up. Yeah, we met up in Munich, in that year and signed it all up and started July of 2017, one July. That was the big day.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. All right, cool. Well, congratulations. Congratulations on that. Because it’s a. I mean, it seems like a, you know, a good match. And so you’re sort of the Southern hemisphere connection, if you like, for,
Edgar Kramer: It’s a great match. Yeah. I mean, all the websites, including Soundstage Australia, they’re all international, global websites, but it’s great to have a, different point of view from an Australian point of view, you know, and obviously with products that are available in Australia and in Australia, both via, distributors and Australian manufacturers. In fact, I’m just about to publish a review from an Australian, manufacturer, a new loudspeaker manufacturer. And of course, I’ve reviewed some of Dellichord’s, awesome products as well.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, you have. And, I guess, I don’t know if we need to mention it. I think regular listeners of the show know that, a. It’s a small business, the hi Fi industry in Australia, and it’s almost unavoidable that, most of us kind of know most of the other operators, I guess, whether they be manufacturers, reviewers or retailers or distributors. But, Although maybe it’s a small business worldwide since you know, everyone overseas as well, which I’m going to come to in a second. But yeah, I can. I can take a guess at the product you’re reviewing. And thank you for reviewing Dellichord over the years. I really appreciate it. Number of awards, too. I’ll just drop that in there. pleasure.
Edgar Kramer: And.
Andrew Hutchison: And, the, Is it Spectraflora.
Edgar Kramer: Correct. Good guess. Oh, well, I guess. I guess there’s no. There’s no such thing as, anonymity these days when you’re on social media, so. Yeah.
Gentleman is also an advertiser at this good podcast
Yeah, that’s it. You spotted the, posts.
Andrew Hutchison: I did. And I also would say that even if it was a secret, that, this. This. This episode doesn’t go up for a few weeks. So you. You could have answered. Yes, but, the gentleman is.
Edgar Kramer: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t need to be a secret.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah. Gentleman is also an advertiser at this good podcast as well. So his ad will have. Actually, this podcast goes up. He, he will have had an ad played already. Yeah, no, so, yeah, interesting loudspeaker. And, we won’t talk about that today because we may speak about that in a future episode because we will be covering this podcast. We’ll be covering the Sydney show, and I believe he is also, an exhibitor at that show, so we will catch up with him at the show. excellent. Now, one of the.
So to cut to the chase, Edgar, the reason why I got you on the podcast is it’s all very well that you’re Soundstage Australia and you write excellent reviews and, have, a great history in hi Fi. And know. You know, you’ve heard lots of different equipment, but the thing that, I think separates your experience from many people, if not, maybe most, if not all people in Australia is that you have visited so many hi Fi shows over so many years,
00:20:00
and you have visited so many factories of various products over so many years. At least that’s what I understand hi Fi shows first, clearly, you’ve been to Munich, any number of times as. As I have, but I feel you may have been many, many more times than I have, and I’ve bumped into you a couple of times there. But, when did you start going to Munich? And of course, part of, the reason I mentioned Munich is, you know, last. Munich is in couple of months time or less by the time this. This episode goes up. Not a couple of months, actually. No, it is only. My God, it is only a few months, isn’t it?
Edgar Kramer: It’s in May. Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. So, mid May. And it’s the last one in Munich. It’s moving to Vienna after that same show, but in a different town and obviously different facility. But do you. Do you have strong memories of Munich? And do. Do you think it’s the best show in the world, or is it. I think. Are there others now you think it’s the best?
Edgar Kramer: I. I think. I think Munich is a benchmark, in terms of size, in terms of how professionally it’s, handled, in terms of the presentation, the. The room quality, you know, and some people might say, well, you know, they’re not great acoustically. Well, some are, some aren’t. But but they the size of them, so the generous size of the rooms, the oscillation between the rooms. Yeah, so it’s a benchmark.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And people travel, you know, not just not just press, but punters travel from all over the world to visit Munich.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, that’s an important delineation with Munich is that if you’re a hi Fi enthusiast and clearly that is what this podcast is designed for, so the listener is presumably a, you know, a fan of great equipment. Is that you can go to the Munich show. It’s all very, I mean, yeah, obviously it’s a pain to get there if you’re in Australia, it’s on the other side of the planet. But And airfares aren’t as cheap as they once were. But you know, once, once you combine it with a holiday or something and it’s it comes doable. It’s a great show. Your Saturday and the Sunday of the four days that starts on a Thursday, is is for the public. And I noticed last year it really wasn’t crazy busy, would you say? I mean it was busy. Super busy. But you know, it’s not like if you went, you couldn’t get a decent listen to, to something I think is that, is that.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, I think you’re probably kind of right. Yeah. I mean I didn’t notice. I mean I did notice a, A slight ease of navigation.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: Which is, yeah. Which is one of the, the things that I that I notice purely because I’ve got to cover so much ground and you know, same, same with the soundstage guys. so yeah, it was a little easier, especially on the Thursday and Friday, because that’s the industry only. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. so yeah, I think you could be right. but Vienna obviously is going to, it’s going to change things up and Vienna is an amazing city. I’m looking forward to visiting again. And the venue, from what I hear from a couple of sources who made special trips to the venue just to check it out.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: they were happy with it. So yeah, I think it’s, it’ll be interesting in 2026. I’ll Ah, miss. I miss Munich because it’s a, it’s a great city. yeah, it’s, it’s again, it’s just as exciting, if not more.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it’s I think they’re probably both great cities but That’s right, there’s certainly historically there’s a lot of Fun has been had in Munich over the years, so. But of course. But yeah, but I’ve certainly, I’d certainly think, I would put it forward as a, If you’re, if you’re an enthusiast of great equipment, then it’s. It’s one thing to go to a show in this country and we have a couple of great shows, but And it’s one thing to go to maybe an Asian show, but I think Munich, it has such a broad range of brands. It’s so big, it’s so shiny, it’s so impressive and it’s such a great city. So that when you’re bored with hi Fi you can, you can do other stuff, namely sort of drink beer obviously, but
Edgar Kramer: That’s right. And pork knuckles. But yeah, But you know, I’ve got, I’ve got Germanic background, you know, so.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, you must feel at home.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, I, I love it. And actually it’s funny because I land in Munich and there’s a kind of feeling I get. And But I’m sure I get that in Austria too, you know. So. Yeah, Germanic, Germanic cities and yeah, so yeah, I’m looking forward to that.
One show that I hear is fantastic is the Polish show in Warsaw
To Vienna. The other show that I hear is fantastic and I actually haven’t been to it is the Polish show in Warsaw.
Andrew Hutchison: Ah yes. Yeah. I’ve never heard of it.
Edgar Kramer: That’s incredible. And that’s. I think it’s over. Spread over three or four venues. so it’s very big. And it’s probably less of an industry show and more of a mix, of industry and consumer.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: So yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Is it, Is it, Is it. What I don’t know about it is whether it’s open on some days to to to. To. To customers, so to speak, to end users. Terrible term. Is it. It is or it isn’t. Do you’re not sure?
Edgar Kramer: I’m not too sure. I had the impression I could be wrong. Don’t quote me, but I’ve got the. Well, I’m going to be. I’m going to be quite. But I’ve got the impression. Yeah,
00:25:00
Edgar Kramer: I’ve got the impression that it’s a three or four day show and I think it’s open to the public on all days. I think it’s a mix of of consumer and An industry.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay.
Edgar Kramer: Like I said, I could be wrong because I haven’t attended. I’ve never been. I’ve just heard that it’s great.
Andrew Hutchison: But you have been to Hong Kong perhaps Have you or.
Edgar Kramer: Yes, yeah, yeah, several times.
Andrew Hutchison: And, Tokyo show. Oh, Tokyo as well. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Tokyo show. I’m very different. and you know, you know, all their shows are great. The Tokyo shows, is a smaller show to. Compared to the Hong Kong show.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: but it’s very niche and it’s very well organized, typically Japanese. The venue is fantastic.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: If a little hot, so they need to turn the air conditioning on. But, sweat. But many shows, the rooms are great. The size and the isolation between rooms. Again, like, like Munich. Very, very good. So that’s, that’s a. And, and I love, I love Japan. I love going to Japan. And, so any excuse to, to do that, you know?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, absolutely.
Have you been to the CES recently or not at all
What about American, shows? any thoughts there? And have you been. I mean, I used to go to Vegas, but years ago. Yeah. Have you been to the CES recently or not at all?
Edgar Kramer: No, no, no, no, not for a few years. Not really. It started dying, like noticeably dying, and I think it’s just basically dead as far as high end HiFi
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. So, obviously CES is still the biggest consumer.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: Show. But, Consumer Electronics show. But, yeah, no, I stopped going. I can’t, I can’t tell you. When would it be? Maybe 20. So I stopped going to CS and I started going to Munich. So would it be maybe 20, 2000, 2008 or 2009? No, sorry. About 2010, I think I stopped going. Sorry.
Andrew Hutchison: That long, that long ago. Okay.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was beginning. That was the beginning of the end.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And, and then, you know, started going to Munich, which was far superior anyway, so there’s no point. Yeah, yeah, indeed.
Do you hear any good sound at Munich photography shows
Andrew Hutchison: Now, serious question. So you’ve been to all these shows. People are going, yeah, ho, hum. Great. That’s great for you. What, what I’m interested to know, because I have thoughts on this and I think what the listener might be interested in is do you hear any good sound? I mean, is the sound great? Is it mediocre? You know, and you alluded before that, you know, Munich has a, great isolation between rooms and, and many rooms have good acoustic properties. But, do you, do you hear. Do you hear great sound? I mean, I’ve certainly heard magical sound, so I think it can be done.
Edgar Kramer: yes, it can. It can be done, definitely. I’ve heard it’s rare. I mean, it’s, it’s rare to hear well. It’s. It’s rare to hear great, great sound.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: But it’s not so ready to hear good sound.
Andrew Hutchison: No.
Edgar Kramer: Right. That’s, that’s, that’s I think a good sound. I can hear quite a lot. But then there’s obviously lots and lots of. I wouldn’t say, you know, really, really bad sound, but sound that is very disappointed. disappointing considering the stature of the products that are on show.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And, and you know, walk in and I don’t like judging audio, judging a company’s potential by the sound they create at a show. And people say, oh well, you know, they’re going to show their products, they should, you know, make it the best they possibly can. And you know, if it sounds like that in the show, then it’s not going to sound that much better in your room because, you know, they set it up. But it’s difficult and sometimes they are using equipment that they’re not necessarily that familiar with. It’s only become because it’s as a result of some partnership or some negotiation between companies and so on. and So you know, I go in with an open mind and if I am familiar with the products purely because I’ve heard so much, if I’m familiar with the products or even know the reputation or the designer of the company, and the sound is not good, then I know that it’s the show. I don’t judge the potential of the equipment based on that sound because I know the equipment . Right. So, it is a tricky, it.
Andrew Hutchison: Is a tricky one because I guess when I first started going I was slightly ignorant of m of the. The variance of perhaps room acoustics from, from. From room to room to room. And I would tend to walk from room to room making mental notes about some quite famous brands and how their reputations, you know, clearly exceeded their actual performance. But then of course you feel a little silly sometime later when you you hear it elsewhere, maybe at a customer’s home or something.
Edgar Kramer: And it’s amazing.
Andrew Hutchison: Truly impressive. And that’s how they get the reputation. Yeah, I think some brands have more trouble getting decent sound at shows than, than others. But I mean, I think we all know the brands that seem to manage to pull it off. The. They’re always impressive. Such as, you know, mbl, seem to somehow know how to get just great sound at a show. They choose a fairly big room usually, but and then fill it with a lot of, A lot of people. So who.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, MBL is always a challenge for me to cover and it’s because the amount of people that are usually there.
Andrew Hutchison: Absolutely.
Edgar Kramer: And also they like to create atmosphere, which is all part of the experience, obviously. But it’s as far as photography. It’s, it’s.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s dark, dark. And there’s palm trees in the way.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And usually some musician in front as well. And when you walk in, then you wait to come back and. And hopefully he’s not there. So you can actually hear the system and. Yeah, that sort of thing. So, you know, but yeah, they. I agree with you. MBL is always, is always very, very good.
Are there others that you’ve heard that you. That you’ve been taken with over the years
Andrew Hutchison: Are there others that you’ve heard that you. That you’ve been, rather taken with over the years that you get and you name.
Edgar Kramer: Well, listeners should hit soundstageaustralia.com for my coverage. My coverage for my coverage of the Munich high end show.
Andrew Hutchison: Straight to a point.
Edgar Kramer: That’s right where I, you know, where I cover, where I choose, my 10 or 15 depending on what year. Ah, favorite rooms of the show. But to answer your question, I think a company called Clarisys.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, yeah, they make. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I’m not, I’m not familiar actually. Well, I’m not. Okay, you spell it.
Edgar Kramer: Speakers.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Why I don’t know the brand then? Because I tend to, Okay, I used to be a panel guy, but I’m not so much anymore. Which brings me to another question. But yeah, tell me about Clarisys.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, larisys. is very, very good. Magical Magico is always very good as well.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, the room tests sound pretty good.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. They know how to match the speaker size to the room size. And and they bring their own, room treatments and they choose wisely with the music. so yeah, that’s one of the good ones as well. MBL like you said. yeah, Wilson Audio, has had some great, sound sometimes. And sometimes depending on when you walk in and what type of music they’re playing. and this, and this applies to, you know, any room. I suppose sometimes the music doesn’t connect with you. So you, you know, you you know, you, you never move on m to the next room and. Yeah, yeah.
Hi Fi show music drives everyone out of the room sometimes
Andrew Hutchison: Which, which of course neatly brings us to hi Fi show music. Why?
Edgar Kramer: Why I can understand in some ways that they obviously want to make sure that their speakers are performing in terms of the source material of performing to the best possible potential. And that means audio file type, really high production recordings.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: That sound great on anything yes. and that’s what they do. And then you start, you know, hearing the same music from room to room. And, you know, it’s fine because, I mean, a lot of audiophiles are into that kind of music and they appreciate it and they have a point of reference to say, oh, well, I listen to this at home and I can see. I can hear what it. What it sounds like in this room, and I can hear that with those. That music with those speakers and with that, with those electronics and so on. But, yeah, it gets. It gets a bit tiring. I had a. I had a good time last year at the Sydney show when I walked into one of the biggest rooms there, and I know the distributor very well, and I said, hey, it was closing time, just about. And I said, hey, it’s closing time. You’re not going to get anyone else walking in. I was there with one of my reviewers and, I said, let’s play some music, you know, some m. Real music. And so we had. We had a great time. You know, I just play some of my, you know, my favorite stuff and alternative stuff and rock stuff and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s great.
Andrew Hutchison: And then you. I guess then you have a. Well, you certainly. I mean, this is the thing, is that every single person that goes to that show really wants to hear a track that they know because that’s. That’s what’s relevant. Like you said, you know how it sounds at home and you can draw some useful comparison. that’s not possible, though, I guess. And so, you know, you are, you are. I mean, it is difficult as someone who’s exhibited at a few shows to. To know what to play. You do sad in some people, and I guess others find it impressive and it may be a tune they’re familiar with. So it’s a useful demo, but, it is a hard choice, but there’s some things that should never be played. And we know what those tracks are. We won’t mention them again, but, you know, but if Keith would just go permanently, that’d be, you know, that’d be great. just go and never come
00:35:00
Andrew Hutchison: back.
Edgar Kramer: keiths left the room.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, he has gone and he will not come back, hopefully. Except he keeps coming back. Hey, I was actually. I was doing a little, local function the other night, and I was using their music, system to demonstrate our speakers. And, I was flicking through their iPad on their streamer and, Bloody Keith, Don’t Go came up and there was a lot of ribbing. what’s it doing there? But apparently their excuse was that someone asked for it. So.
Edgar Kramer: Hey, I think it’s always very brave. Sorry, I was gonna say it’s always very brave when an exhibitor opens up the art pad and says, hey, play what you like. And then you get some horrific stuff. And it drives. It drives everyone out of the room. Sometimes the music may actually be good, but it drives everyone out of the room. And then that’s kind of. That’s a risky thing. It’s a very brave and risky thing. So I understand why it doesn’t happen too often.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, on that. On that, just for the listener, that is, in fact, a real problem. And, I have to say that on almost every occasion, probably towards the end of the day, where you’ve sort of given up a little bit and you’ve had enough for one day and your program’s sort of, you know, gone off its wheels, Fallen off its wheels a little bit, you go, ah, is there anything anyone wants to hear? And someone will, you know, request something, or they have a USB stick that they wish to insert into your streamer. And usually, what comes out is diabolical. It’s a very personal choice. It’s kooky. I don’t know why. And, yes, everyone immediately does a 180 and leaves the room, and you’re like, why did I do this? that happens, you know.
Edgar: A nice piece of music might be nice to one person
So can I make the suggestion to those that are listening that wish to, you know, make a request that you make it a nice piece of music that, you know, a reasonably broad spectrum of people enjoy.
Edgar Kramer: Sure. Because this is a. This is a clue to that. Because, you know, a nice piece of music might be nice to one person. It’s a subjective. Subjective thing. So may, not be something to you or to someone else. But one. One thing that links people up is if you choose a piece of music that you like to hear that may not necessarily be, you know, you may or may not be to someone’s taste, but if it’s got stunt quality in terms of the recording.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, that can.
Edgar Kramer: That can think.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, I don’t,
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, I’m not into this music so much, but, damn, that’s so well recorded, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. And. Yeah, and that’s a very valid point, Edgar. And yet I think some people guard very closely their secret track that’s horrifically recorded and is a real system tester, and they really want to hear how bad a system can possibly sound. And I think that’s. That’s an unfortunate does that help?
Edgar Kramer: You know, it doesn’t help anyone.
Andrew Hutchison: It doesn’t help because really it may be an enjoyable piece of music for them, but really how often are they listening to it? In reality, they’re not listening to it every day. So.
Edgar Kramer: That’s right, you can listen to it at home.
So you’ve traveled around the world obviously going to hi fi shows
Andrew Hutchison: So you’ve traveled around the world obviously going to hi fi shows, which is I mean, I mean, you know, for work. It is your job. You have to obviously review. Well firstly report on the show and what’s new and what’s interesting and what sounds great. But also Ah, but also, obviously hook up with distributors and manufacturers. and you know, work.
Edgar Kramer: Out designers and stuff.
Andrew Hutchison: Obviously ask them questions and write articles. But in many occasions, obviously, you become invited to see their facilities which of course in Europe is exciting. I mean you obviously must travel to I would imagine the Scandinavian countries and Germany, Austria and Italy. Italy probably quite a bit. And I guess now there are new manufacturers in Estonia and Czech Republic. What have you, so. But have you. Is this sort of. Is there a, is there a particular invitation that you remember? or just so. I mean the one in Sardinia sounds pretty amazing. Just because it’s insane.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah. Ah, that wasn’t a factory, but that was a. Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: no factory.
Edgar Kramer: Through their product launch.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Plenty of food and wine, I would guess. Right, right.
Edgar Kramer: It was, yeah, it was, it was amazing. The venue. The venue was incredible. Right on the beach and. Yeah, yeah, it’s one of the perks, I suppose, of being in the industry. And these things happen because you know, these big companies have budgets to, to you know, to use and to launch new products and yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Get people excited.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. As far as factories. Yeah, but factories, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: What stands out, do you think? What, what do you remember?
Edgar Kramer: There’s been so many. Okay. Yamaha is outstanding. is incredible. such a huge company and you know, they make everything right across the chain, you know, from the microphone to the mixing desk to the recorder to you know, at the consumer end, at the playback end, you know, your amplification and speakers and so on. so yeah, the factory is amazing, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: And I mean you
00:40:00
Andrew Hutchison: go to the Yamaha factory, it must be a two day tour. Is it? Or how does, how does that work?
Edgar Kramer: Just about. Yeah, just about. Because there’s a couple of locations. So yeah, just about, two day tour. And you know, it’s just. Especially the musical instrument part of it where they make the pianos. This Thing. That’s unbelievable.
Andrew Hutchison: So they gave you the amount, they gave you that as well. Okay, so.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: So what, what’s, what’s, what’s the kind of thing that just, I mean is it the scale? In the case of Yamaha, I imagine it’s the pure scale of the operation. But because, yeah, I mean definitely.
Edgar Kramer: The scale, but also something that people may not like, especially high end people may not associate with with Yamaha is the, the amount of care and dedication and attention to detail. Even at all price points. Yeah, right, at all price points. And then obviously Yamaha does a, does have a high end line which is the 5000 line and then the 2000 line. and you know the people, the engineering team behind the high end products are dedicated purely to the 5000 series.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: and they’re real enthusiasts. They’re not just a guy out of, out of uni engineering course. And yeah, so these guys are rural audio enthusiasts and musicians as well. so yeah, Yamaha is very impressive.
Have you been to any of the Chinese hi Fi factories recently
I was in Wilkins, another impressive factory.
Andrew Hutchison: So you went to Worthing or have you been to the Chinese?
Edgar Kramer: I actually haven’t been to Worthing. my comrades at Soundstage America have been there a couple of times I think. But I actually didn’t get around to it. But I went to the Wuhan facility. That’s super impressive. it’s huge as well. the 700 series are made there, as well as the others. But the 700 series is kind of the top of the line series within that factory aside from 800 which is made in Worthing. and yeah, again the care, the attention to detail, the testing facilities, the listening facilities, and all these companies, you know, I can name others, you know, Focal in France, Wilson and Magico in America, you know, KEF in China. There’s a common thread where these guys are trying, they have a common goal. They’re trying to do the best they can to approach live music. Yeah, right. In terms of what that sounds like. And they have different resources and they have different budgets. and they have different engineering teams, you know, the number of engineers. and they have, you know, some of the bigger companies have software and CNC machining and that sort of thing. but at the end of the day, they’re all striving for the same thing.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And to do the best they can within their means and their experience and their, you know, the facility allows.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, I would imagine that the amount of effort and detail that you, you, you’re exposed to going to the factory, which, which I think, you know, consumers would probably be best to see in many cases, just to understand the incredible. Like you say, they’re all. Whether you’ve got brand preferences or. There’s no doubt that all of these brands are trying very, very hard to, produce something that’s exceptional.
Edgar Kramer: Exactly. Whether that’s to your test or not, that’s a different thing. That’s a subjective thing. But, they, they, they’re all trying to do the best they can and. Yeah, yeah. I mean, And what can I say? It’s. There’s been so many factories and they all, like I say, have this common goal.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah. And I guess they all go about it probably slightly differently on the basis that there’s, you know, different cultures and what have you involved. And I always imagine the sort of Italian factories involve a lot of sitting around, having long lunches, lots of prosciutto and, obviously continuous espressos throughout the day.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, vino, I’m hoping is happening mainly at sort of towards the end of the. The day. But, you know, I don’t know. What have you seen? Is there any.
Edgar Kramer: No, no. Yeah. No, towards the end of the day, I mean, you just loosen up with like one glass I’ or two. And that’s how your, your listening skills kind of develop from that. And,
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what happens, you know. But, you know, it’s, it’s just trying to approach live music. I mean, we can’t do it. Not yet.
Andrew Hutchison: No, we’re a long way away, really.
Edgar Kramer: Not close. Yeah, we’re not close. but I think that our brain adjusts and we, you know, we listen to a good system and we know it’s right. Even though it might be miles away from. From live music.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, I think we know we’re enjoying it. I think we know it’s obviously at the lower end of hi Fi equipment. It’s a case of just getting away from a system that just annoys you with its limits. You know, it’s obviously it’s got a certain artificiality or colorations or distortions that just bug you. And obviously once you slip into the high ends, you know, most of that goes away.
00:45:00
Andrew Hutchison: And then it’s a case of, getting, something that excites you. I go, I guess.
Do you prefer records to streaming or do you prefer both
And that is. Is your thing. And, and of course, there are so many ways to go about building a system. I mean, you could have tube amplifiers or class A transistor amps or of course, class D. Now, yeah, you. You could have, you know, obviously you could listen to records or streaming or CDs or I don’t know, open reel tape that you borrowed off the guy who recorded the album and he’s made a quick copy, of the master tape or something like that. There’s so many ways you can source the music. That’s probably the least practical way. But, do you have preferences or that you’re willing to, you know, allude to that you. I mean, do you. What do you think of records? Do you prefer records to streaming or do you.
Edgar Kramer: I mean, I actually enjoy in, in different ways. I enjoy all formats. So I don’t have real to real tape, but I’ve got a turntable. I’ve got a, A fairly big record collection. I have, close to 2,000 CDs.
Edgar Kramer: which I keep. Which I’ve kept. and I still have a CD player, obviously. and I stream. I stream a lot. I have Qobuz, and I use Roon, which is fantastic. It is, You know, and the great thing with Roon is that you. The algorithm is very clever. So you, you know, you’re listening to something that you enjoy and it’s very good at suggesting something that’s along very similar lines.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And you may or may not have heard of the band or that musician before that artist. And and so you add it, you know, you add it to your library and that’s how you discover music. And we have access to more music now than we ever have throughout history. You know, touch of a button. At the touch of a button.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s It’s a funny thing, isn’t it? It’s it’s not funny. It’s just a fact is that when you and I were younger, you know, a. It was quite a financial commitment to get a copy of a piece of music. And you would, even if you weren’t much of a fan, you’d make sure you became one because you needed to get your money’s worth out of it. And I guess that’s probably the only slight, not a disadvantage of streaming. But you. If you don’t. If you don’t like it in the first 10 seconds, you might flick to the next thing. I guess that’s the shame of it. But then on the other hand, discovery of new stuff that you do immediately like is never been better. You know, the fact that you can, like you say, go down A rabbit hole with the aid of Roon and, listen to all sorts of new things is, a wonder. And if people. People listening and not are stuck with CDs and records and are quite firm about that, then I think you’re making a mistake. I know I did because I, As I alluded to earlier, I did have a title subscription for probably a year before I actually tried it. And probably half an hour. Well, I was given one as a promotion from a manufacturer. And, so I didn’t pay my own money. So therefore, I guess I was like, whatever, I’ll get around to that. But I was quite happy listening to CDs and. And. And was actually listening to records again because, you know, they’d come back by this stage because this is, I guess, I don’t know, the year. Maybe 12, 13, 14, something like that. 2000, not obviously 1912, 2012. And And I just like, I better give this title thing a crack. And I’m like, I felt like such an idiot. You know, I just thought like, this is. This is amazing. First thing is it sounds amazing through the equipment that I was selling that would play it. And then secondly, yeah, just the ability to try another album from the same artist that you already love, let alone discover, new stuff that’s similar was, you know, was an immediate joy. And, you know, yeah, I was an idiot. And that comes back to, you know, being stuck in a rut. I guess you’re happy with your CDs, and that’s all I need. And I speak to people like this every day, so I know they’re out there. they’re, no, no happy with the CDs. And, I mentioned to them they might like to see.
Edgar Kramer: In my opinion. Yeah, sure. CDs, in my opinion, sound incredible, and I think they sound better than streaming.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: M. Mind you, if you’re playing. If you’re. If you’re playing back, CD rips, that’s a different story. But if you’re purely streaming from Tidal or Qobuz I think CD sounds better. It’s just more dynamic and a little bit more detailed. It’s not huge, in my opinion. It’s not night and day.
Andrew Hutchison: No.
Edgar Kramer: But I think CD is better. and then vinyl’s got its own charm, you know, and. Yeah, you know, it’s a hipster, hipster led kind of revival, you know, the community. Hipster community revived it back in. Whenever it was, like you said, I think in 2010 or whatever.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, about 2010.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah. And that’s become kind of, you know, an accepted mainstream thing. and hopefully it’ll be around for good. M. Because it is a great format.
It’s not going away is it? It’s just growing
So I, I’m kind of.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s not going away is it? It’s just growing. No, no.
Edgar Kramer: And it shouldn’t. And you know, and the same thing’s going to happen to CDs. You know, the CDS will come back and again some hipsters will get a hold
00:50:00
Edgar Kramer: of some CDs and hey, this, this format is awesome. And well it’ll be a new.
Andrew Hutchison: Version of the hipster, the next generation of hipsters which will be called something else, I guess. I don’t know.
Edgar Kramer: Something else.
Andrew Hutchison: But yes.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: But yeah, no, absolutely.
now we’re going to take a two second break again. We’ll be right back with with further questions from someone who has heard and seen it all. Serhan Swift Bespoke Loudspeakers designed and built in Australia by perfectionists described by reviewers as exceptional. Serhan Swift has received numerous awards here and abroad including Sound and Image best stand amount loudspeaker 2024. For full information head to siehanswift.com and and we’re back with Edgar Kramer, talking about his life of reviewing and just listening to music. Which is, it’s a great job if you can get away with it. and he seems to have gotten away with it. So I have questions, I have questions, Edgar.
Do you, Speaking of music, is there a particular, is there particular tracks that you, you try on every piece of equipment that you line up of which I guess I don’t know how many pieces, I mean you review three or four bits of gear a month or two or three or something like that.
Edgar Kramer: But yeah, two, two, sometimes three, usually two, a month. And no, to answer your question, there isn’t a piece of music that I use every single single time because it just gets very boring. It’s very, very. So yeah, so what I do is I mix it up with music that I think that I kind of enjoyed. But I think is, is also well recorded enough and appealing enough on a kind of like semi universal level.
Edgar Kramer: where people would say okay, I’m reading this review, I’ll give that a spin and see what he meant. But what he’s saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have, you know, I have a few and at the moment I’ve been using some interesting stuff. so I’ve been using, for example, so you know, I, I Usually try to listen to all the genre or as many genres as possible.
Andrew Hutchison: Sure.
Edgar Kramer: But try to better mix it up within the genre so different artists within that genre. so.
Andrew Hutchison: So I can’t pin you down with five hot demo tracks.
Edgar Kramer: We can give you some demo tracks that I’m using at the moment. Yeah. They’re not the definitive ones, but they’re, like, really good ones. okay, so I’ve been listening to a bit of jazz fusion.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: I like a band called the Aristocrats.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And amazing musicians, especially the guitarist, a guy called Guthrie Govan.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: British guy, and is incredible guitarist and the bass player. And it’s a trio, so the best player and the drummer are very, very good as well. so there’s an album, a live album, and there’s a track called Bad Asteroid.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And that is great for judging the dynamics and the slam of a system or a product or, you know, product I’m reviewing. So it’s very expressive. It’s. It’s fast and the music is great. So I can listen both critically. you know, what’s this bit of gear doing?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: But I can also sit back and enjoy the track when I turn off the analytical part of. Part of the, audition. And. And the other thing is that if I find that it’s not only sounding good because the component is doing something really good, but if I’m also engaged, if I connect with the music, that’s also a plus point for whatever I’m reviewing, you know, and that’s a hard thing to describe. You know, what is it doing?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: That is engaging you. You know. Okay. It’s doing bass. Amazing. You know, wow. You look at the dynamics and the tonality is really good, but I think it’s like a whole heap of those things put together. and then. And many products have all those, but somehow still don’t quite connect, but other products do.
Andrew Hutchison: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s the magic and the frustration of hi fi equipment, really, isn’t it? That on paper it should be magical, but it’s not blowing your hair back. is there a couple of other quick tracks that you can throw in?
Edgar Kramer: A couple of other quick tracks. again, say jazz fusion. There’s a bank called the Bombastic Meatbats.
Andrew Hutchison: Of course there is. Just hang on. Repeat. Bombastic beat. Sorry. Bombastic Meatbats.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow.
Edgar Kramer: And Chad Smith. I don’t know if you know, Chad Smith is brilliant drummer. Is the drummer of Red Hot Chilli Peppers.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. He’s kind of like. He’s in he’s in jazz mode with this band.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And and the drumming is obviously, you know, incredible. And it’s well recorded. Especially the drums are really well recorded because Chad Smith would have said, hey, you know, I’m the drummer, you know, get this, get this.
00:55:00
Edgar Kramer: Right. You know, I want this to sound right. They’re really good for testing, the systems Transient Attack, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: In the snare. so we’ll.
Andrew Hutchison: We’ll add these tracks, if they’re on title to our ah, title playlist so that people can very easily, you know, have a listen. And one more that you think might,
Edgar Kramer: One more. You know, this is. This was one of the hardest questions we’ve ever posed.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s not that hard. I’ve only asked for three. You’re two thirds of the way there’s. There. Right. So.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, that’s the problem. You’ve only asked for three.
What are your 20 favorite tracks? They’re just too much
I need like, about. What are your 20 favorite tracks? They’re just too much.
Andrew Hutchison: I couldn’t. I couldn’t. I couldn’t remember if I. I mean, I’ve got 20, but I. I couldn’t tell you what they are.
Edgar Kramer: Okay.
Andrew Hutchison: Memory functionality. But yeah, yeah, just. Well, okay. As many more as you like.
Edgar Kramer: Another one?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Edgar Kramer: So another one that I’m enjoying at the moment, or I have been enjoying for. For a while now. And this is very timely because it’s a track by the Michael Michael Wollny – And it’s a German guy. M m. and it’s a track called In Heaven.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: And from an album called Weltentraum, which means, well, dream in German. And the interesting thing about this is that it’s very well recorded. The drums. The kick drum sounds awesome, but he’s a pianist, so. But obviously, you know, the piano is obviously great, but the way they recorded all the other instruments, including the kick drum, is really good in this, album. But the interesting thing is that it’s timely because the track was actually written by David Lynch.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, okay. Wow. All right. He wrote it. Okay.
Edgar Kramer: he wrote. Yeah, he wrote the track. So it’s a David lynch track and it’s a collaboration between, you know, him and Michael Wollny. And obviously this goes back, I think. I think the album’s at least two or three years old anymore. I can’t remember. Yes, it goes back obviously, a while. so that’s an interesting one. And yeah, I mean, is an incredible jazz pianist. I listen to most of his albums because they’re all very well Recorded and the music is great if, if you’re into jazz. and I’ll wrap it up in terms of the tracks because I can go on forever. But. Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, I’m, a big rock guy and two of my favorite rock bands, I have lots of, lots of favorites, but two of my favorite, most favorite, band called Tool.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: And another band called A Perfect Circle.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay. A Perfect Circle, yeah. Well, Tool. We know, I know, but A Perfect Circle. Who, who’s, where does that fit into the world of rock?
Edgar Kramer: Okay, it’s the singer. The singer from Tool actually started this. It’s an offshoot. It’s an offshoot. Totally different. Totally different.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, is that right? Totally different. Oh, it’s a different musician. What’s the style?
Edgar Kramer: Except for him. Yeah, and it’s a different, slightly different style too. It’s m. More melodic and okay, less, less heavy prog type thing. so there’s an album called the thirteenth Step and there’s a track called the Noose. And. Okay, it’s a great track. It starts with like a really lo fi intro.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And you think, oh, this is a recording.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: What have they done? You know? And then all of a sudden it starts and it’s like a snap and it’s like power, power in the drums. The guitar’s there, the voice is clear and separated and that end towards it and it keeps building up and building up and then it explodes towards the end where it’s just kind of this barrage of sound that hits you and it’s, it’s an awesome track. And I think if people, if people know our perfect circle to say, ah, yeah, the Noose. That’s the track.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay, well, I, I, I’ll be checking that out because I, I have to say your enthusiastic descriptions have got me, excited. And I, and I also, and I know from previous experience with tracks that you’ve suggested, just, just when I’ve dropped a piece of equipment off or something, that they are generally very decent, music. That’s the first thing is they’re proper music, not some audio file. Tosh. yeah, it’s great music that is secondarily also conveniently well recorded, well made.
Edgar Kramer: Those things aren’t exclusive, you know. They’re not. No, they’re not exclusive each other. You can. Yeah, that’s right. So you, There are, you can have great, ah, music that is also really well recorded to you would say quotation marks, audiophile level, you know, yeah, you know, you know, Stone and rock. You know, bands like Bjork and Color Haze and My Sleeping Karma, bands like that, all in . You know, people, if they look this up and they like that genre, they’re awesome bands. But I’ll finish Yes. with, a classical piece, which I’ll get. I either get goosebumps and if I’m really, really into a system, when my system, in between reviews, when I’m listening to my system and it’s been dialed in and it’s sounding really, really good on that day, kind of, I get either goosebumps or I get tears.
01:00:00
Edgar Kramer: yeah.
You review equipment in the same, Same acoustic space as you normally use
Du pre playing Elgar Concerto conducted by It’s a classic, classic, recording. And man, it’s just moving.
Andrew Hutchison: Send me a link to that. So we get the, the trick with classical stuff, of course, is to get that particular performance.
Edgar Kramer: It’S widely available on quobas or title or cd, and even I got it on vinyl as well. So. Yeah. Oh, wow. I’ve got it on everything.
Andrew Hutchison: So you can make comparisons. And speaking of comparisons. No, that’s, that’s, That’s a great selection, I guess. Thank you for that because, Yeah, we’ll, we’ll, We’ll. We’ll link to that. And so people can very easily just, visit the website, go to the title link.
Edgar Kramer: And I actually jotted a few more down, but, you know, I won’t go on forever. But this just, you know, it’s just so much favorite music is just. Yeah. It’s like, who’s your favorite. Favorite son or daughter? It’s impossible.
Andrew Hutchison: It is impossible.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: And, and probably illegal. And, you know, it never should be. Like, this is one of those things. You can’t, can’t, make that choice, apparently. But of course, but of course you do. but you just don’t publicize it. So, I, I just want to make the point. not, not the point. A point is that you talk. And you just reminded me with saying that when you’ve got your system put back together, that you do. People are probably wondering, you know, how do you make judgments about something, and write so critically about something, when, you know, it’s unfamiliar equipment and what have you. Well, you do insert it into your familiar system. So you, you, you listen, you review equipment in the same, Same acoustic space, which, of course is a. Ah, Is a. Is a priority. I mean, if you kept reviewing in different rooms, it would be pointless. You’d be reviewing, obviously, the room as much as anything else. And And of course you’ve got a selection of very high quality equipment which you then basically just plug. So if you’re reviewing an amplifier, you insert it in your system instead of your, if it’s an integrated amp instead of your pre power. So you presumably are using the same speakers that you normally use. You’re using them in the same room and then in turn you’re using the same streamer and turntable and what have you. there is one catch, you know.
Edgar Kramer: Only swap one thing at a time. Only one thing at a time.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Because then you just. That’s the only way to keep track of it. So obviously I’m super familiar with my own system which I’ve had for several years, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: And unchanged.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah. Well at least two. At least two. I think the newest piece that I have is two years old.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: but you know you obviously familiarize yourself with the equipment that you have at the time as much as possible and then you introduce one piece of equipment at a time and whether, whether it’s an electronic speaker or cables. Yeah, I review cables which is you know, not that many people do. and Yeah, and that’s how you can make ah, a, an intelligent, informed assessment of what you actually review.
Andrew Hutchison: Absolutely. and you’ve got quite a revealing system and you know the room is obviously treated and that’s actually a little bit of a thing that people, consumers quite rightfully. look at some YouTube video reviewers and see that they’re reviewing in a sort of a plain untreated room which may have okay acoustic because it’s you know, logistics. I’m just going to do it, I’ll edit that out later. Bloody hell. You know they I have the power and then I’ll forget. so, so that you’ve got acoustically a, a an accurate. Yeah quite well tuned sort of neutral kind of space.
You’ve got a quite a revealing pair of loudspeakers
A lot of people review so called reviewers perhaps do or they don’t. Either way I guess they’re familiar with their acoustics. But you are familiar with yours. You’ve got a quite a revealing pair of loudspeakers and And in my estimation a very good quality dac. I particularly like that dac and I.
Edgar Kramer: Yes.
Andrew Hutchison: I can’t remember what it’s stack.
Edgar Kramer: What French?
Andrew Hutchison: It’s French, yes.
Edgar Kramer: A French company called Total dac.
Andrew Hutchison: Total dac.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And the designer Vincent Brion comes from the telecommunications industry.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And he builds, hand builds R2R resistor based Dacs and he uses, depending on the model he uses anywhere between 100 to 300 or 400 unmatched resistors.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And and it’s a, It’s a fantastic product. It really sounds, sounds fluid and it’s, you know, analog like, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. It sounds. Now fluid is the word I would use in my brief, listening experience. It stands out as immediately being not digital sounding, but. But it has, but it, but it retains the, the positive aspects of, of digital. obviously a pair of Wilson Audio, something or others which I’ve forgotten the name of, excuse my ignorance.
Edgar Kramer: it’s the Alexia V, which is the current. Alexia.
Andrew Hutchison: Current one, yeah. Yep.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah. which I absolutely love because it’s a. Dialed in properly. It’s an amazing
01:05:00
Edgar Kramer: speaker.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And I’ve got an amplifier that can drive it really, really well, which is the Gryphon Audio Antileon Evo, which is the current one as well.
Andrew Hutchison: Yep.
Edgar Kramer: Class A amplifier Monster. And he just controls. And just controls the speaker. Incredible dynamics and you know, it’s the class A sound. So very fluid as well.
You’re buying direct from the manufacturer so there’s no freight involved
Well.
Andrew Hutchison: And what are you. I have a. I was gonna. Well, now you go. You, you.
Edgar Kramer: Well, I was, I was going to say the one piece because this is an interesting thing. The one piece of equipment that I have had the longest.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: It’s been only changed in terms of just upgrades but. But it’s the same, the same, model and brand. So it’s my preamp and it’s a, an Australian company over in Western Australia outside of Perth called supratech. They. Michael Maloney has been building preamps mainly. he has had, he has built some power ramps, but mainly preamps for about 30 or 35 years or so probably. And he’s fine tuned the whole thing to an art form. And I’ve had lots of preamps here at, you know, four, five, ten times the cost. Yeah. and nothing beats it. It’s just, it’s just amazing, you know. So. Yeah, that’s an interesting piece.
Andrew Hutchison: What, not crazy expensive do you think is that? I have no idea.
Edgar Kramer: Crazy expensive at all.
Andrew Hutchison: But under 10,000 or something or.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah. It isn’t. Well, they have. So he has a, The starting One is about three and a half or 4,000.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: And then he goes up from that. I think the most expensive one is about 10 or 12 something along those lines. and I have kind of like one that is semi customized for me with some special components and stuff. And Yeah. So mine would be the equivalent Of a maybe, I don’t know, an eight thousand dollar.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: Preamp. But you’re buying direct from the manufacturer.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay. So that makes sure distributor margins and.
Edgar Kramer: Freight and all those things.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, it just flies through the window underneath a pigeon. Yes, particularly strong pigeon. There must be freight. I’m having a crack at your no freight thing. But I mean it’s not, not. It’s not freighted across the world, that’s for sure. But it is, it is freighted across the country, which is a meager for across the world as well because.
Edgar Kramer: In fact, in fact at one stage he was selling boatloads of them in the States.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: but yeah, yeah, not, you know, just not crazy freight costs, you know, not DHL in Australia. It’s Australia Post, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah. So not so not pigeon. Well actually Australia Post probably is pigeons. I don’t know. I shouldn’t say we’re not supposed to knock Australia Post, but it did take me a week the other day to get something from Melbourne to Brisbane via Express Post. I find that kind of oh, really unsatisfactory factory. But but they apologize as if. No they didn’t. They never do.
I’ve now descended to watching YouTube on the TV at home occasionally
I have other questions, and I’m looking at my notes.
Edgar Kramer: I think you touched on, you touched on YouTubers. That’s got some interesting.
Andrew Hutchison: Well the YouTube thing is, is, is kind of. I mean YouTube is great. I, I’ve now descended, although it’s probably an upgrade from free to air these days, but I was going to say I’ve descended to watching YouTube on the TV at home occasionally. And actually it’s kind of, I mean YouTube has matured in so many ways. It’s got so many, you know, really high level production, productions. TV you call them TV shows really. And they’re on YouTube. I mean, I know I’m stating the obvious to people who listening going yeah old man. but I mean, you know, YouTube in 2002 was was clearly just people making some video of their dog in the backyard and putting it up and it’s, it’s improved linearly and dramatically from then to you know, I mean you’ve all sorts of, in whatever your interest is, there’s a high quality production out there for you, but there’s equally, I think some questionable ones and I guess they’re the ones that jump on the coattails of of the leaders.
Do you have some thoughts on the hi fi reviewing situation on YouTube
but do you have some thoughts on the old, the hi fi reviewing situation on YouTube?
Edgar Kramer: So it’s this kind of like this social media, influencer phenomenon, you know. And it’s like we need to be, we need to be told, we need to, you know, we need, we need to be either justify our purchase or, or be swayed to purchase something purely by someone else’s, you know, influence, so called influence. and you know, some of the YouTubers, I’m talking about the audio, audio field now. so some YouTubers kind of are keen enthusiasts with some presentation skills and maybe with low to medium industry experience. And then there’s obviously some that are very, very experienced and very, very good. But I think what the influenced. Right. What the influenced need to ask is, does this
01:10:00
Edgar Kramer: YouTuber have an acoustically tutor room?
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, so that’s a big thing for you.
Edgar Kramer: Does he have.
Andrew Hutchison: Yep.
Edgar Kramer: Well, yeah. Does he have an appropriate auditioning environment? What’s his reference system? Right. does he have ongoing relationships with industry leaders? Because that’s how you get insights into how this business works. So it’s not just about, about the audio equipment itself. It reflects a culture, like a company culture. you know, have they interviewed designers, you know, what’s kind of, what’s their background? I think that’s what the influenced need to.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, I think I agree with a lot of what you’re saying and I, I don’t disagree with any of it, but I’ve got thoughts on it. I’ll come back to it. But I think, I think when you’re in a position like yourself, and to a lesser degree myself, although I’ve had to deal in, you know, as in trading these products, you’ve reviewed them, I’ve been buying and selling them. you do deal with I guess, the same people, but in a, in a different way. I certainly always judged who I would deal with, what products I would import based on of course, the relationship you could generate with a, with a supplier, you know, whether they would be reliable, professional, whether they, they really had their heart in the product and wanting to make it perform brilliantly. These are the insights that I would experience and then would be very much part of whether I would import that brand or not. And there were products that I imported for short periods of time where clearly the philosophy and levels of service were not, were not good. Yes. These are things that you would also be privy to that are, skipped over and, and the casual listener slash, buyer might think that you having a stronger relationship or a more, a closer relationship with a brand might actually be a problem because you Might, you know, tend to review their product favorably. And I guess there is that slight chance that you would. But I mean not to be, but it’s more likely that you will, would review them positively because these people actually have managed to allow you to understand their philosophy and the way they go about things. And of course with the factory tour you can see that they really do make it, and make it to an extremely high standard. These are things that the casual reviewer I guess is not privy to. And you know, and let’s concentrate on the positives of that. The more, you know, the more you can report on, I guess. Is that, that, is that what you’re saying?
Edgar Kramer: To some degree, definitely. And I mean it’s. I have, close, Well, I wouldn’t say close. I have very good relationships with many, many, many, you know, manufacturers, companies around the world and the designers and so on. But on a professional level, I mean I’m not going out to the pub every Saturday night with them. No, it’s not quite like. So, yeah, not quite like that. So, you know, and if I like a product, you know, I tend to review very high end products.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: And they’re usually made by a designer or designers who have lots of resources available to them in terms of what they’re designing. And they’re not companies that just throw a product out there on the market purely just to be in, you know, within the market. so I, I actually haven’t come across a product that could say at the level that I reviewed that I can say, man, this is shit. You m. Know, because at the end of the day these, these guys are putting their name on that product. Right. And unless they’ve, unless they’ve made something like a major mistake, which doesn’t happen. Products, products take a long time to develop. You’re going to spot a mistake somewhere along the development process. yeah, you know, these, you know, they may not be to your, to your liking, to your taste. You know, you might not like the sound, but they’re not in general because someone else would like that sound and would buy those products. And those companies are successful and they’re still operating within the market and they’re selling, so. Well.
Andrew Hutchison: What, well what is the definition of anyhow really? I mean it’s, I mean it could be, it could be the look, it could be the sound, it could be the reliability, it could be the fit and finish. I mean there are, you know, and honestly in modern manufacturing there’s very few products that are, you know, that are, that are seriously out there and marketed and widely distributed that are of poor quality. There’s, you almost can’t buy the wrong, wrong thing. But I do feel strongly that there are, there are differences between larger, mainstream brands in some areas. And I, I would say, and I don’t want to speak on your behalf, but I think that some of these reviewers, so called reviewers, and they are more influencers than reviewers, are missing stuff because they just don’t have the background. I mean, I guess that is the gist of this podcast is that that as a someone who’s been in the business a long time in a couple of different roles
01:15:00
Andrew Hutchison: that it’s not that I know at all, it’s just that I’ve soaked up a lot of information over the years because I do it every day. And so there’s. And the same in your case. And and so I think you’re.
Edgar Kramer: In a database when your database, your experience and your database is so wide.
Andrew Hutchison: Yep.
Edgar Kramer: You know, your you’re much more cognisant of how these companies work and how these products work and you’re more.
Andrew Hutchison: Aware of the pitfalls, I guess, and things that go wrong and I don’t know. And you can report on that.
Have you ever been approached and asked to review a product
And look, I mean, and look, do you, I mean, have you ever been approached and asked to review something and you’ve gone, you know, I mean, I mean no one, I mean people will say no one ever. No reviewer writes a bad review. Well, I say of course they don’t. Because you, what’s the point? It’s, it’s completely unconstructive. You, you would simply. And I don’t know whether you ever have. But I’m going to ask because I was half asking it. Have you ever been approached and then you’ve had to go, look, sorry, I, I don’t really.
Edgar Kramer: There’s been a couple of products.
Andrew Hutchison: We’ll just give it back to you and forget about it. There has been.
Edgar Kramer: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. There has been a couple of products and or maybe more than a couple products, but it’s a couple of times there were basically a technical issue that just, you know, maybe a bad batch of capacitors or something, you know, a part that wasn’t, that wasn’t quite right or it was damaged on. And then they weren’t able to supply another sample for review. But there’s also been a couple of times where the product just didn’t perform to the level that I thought it should perform.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: You know, it wasn’t necessarily bad, but it just didn’t perform, you know, at the level of meaning that it was, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Meaning you would have had to write a somewhat negative review. And as you’re not someone who really wants to write a negative review, you. That is the, that is the way out, isn’t it? Really is to just go, look, sorry, this isn’t.
Edgar Kramer: I’m into positivity.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well, look, you know, I’ve thought about this a lot because back in the day, probably far too much back in the day there was, there was negative reviews. You could, There’s a few of the English magazines and would, And there was a few, There was a few subscription only, no advertising American magazines that would literally write bad reviews. Mind you, back in those days there were more bad products. There were much more things that were cobbled together in people’s sheds, and were probably not, you know, not capable of functioning in a broad range of systems correctly. So maybe a bad review should have been written. But anyhow, the point is it happens less these days and I think. And you would, you would avoid that.
Edgar Kramer: Situation as you have sometimes when there’s a really shocking review of a product that, you know, should sound good, there might be something behind it. I mean there’s, there has been a couple of times and that I’ve heard other reviewers who are not no longer around. So this goes back quite, quite a long time.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah.
Edgar Kramer: Where, where they’ve had a disagreement with the, with the manufacturer while they’ve got the product in for review and out of spite, you know, so this has happened.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: and that’s, that’s obviously shocking, terrible. It’s, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. but it has happened. but you know, that’s not to say that within a review. I don’t say. Well, you know, for example, product X has very, ah, good dynamics. But Product, you know, Y, which is in the same price point, the same type of product actually has superior, superior dynamics or I don’t think the detail is quite, you know, well presented as it should be or you know, within a review. But in the overall the product is good.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: It’s just that it’s got, you know, maybe a slight weak. Witnessed in some aspect of performance.
Andrew Hutchison: And you’re happy to, you’re happy to point that out as a relative thing. Yeah, I mean, of course that is, that is the, that is the, the job, I guess.
Everyone’s got to start somewhere. So there’s no point just liking audio
So, yeah, yeah, I, I would imagine there’s a fair Inconsistency from the hobbyist turned YouTube hi fi expert. and that’s not to have a crack at hobbyists. Everyone’s got to start somewhere. And there would be ridiculous us to some just sort of say otherwise. But at the same time, when I started, I wasn’t writing. I wasn’t writing or performing reviews and sticking them up on the Internet because the Internet didn’t exist. But you know, it’s, I mean, yeah, you start somewhere and then maybe you don’t start doing reviews on day one, you know.
Edgar Kramer: That’s right, exactly. You, you, you know, dedicate a few years to getting as much experience as possible, even just as a hobby, you.
Andrew Hutchison: Know, because m. I find some of these YouTube people I’ve spoken to one, way or another via email or something, they’ve never, they’ve never been to a major international hi fi show. And I’m, I’m wondering how you can possibly, I mean, how do you get listening experience if you’re not going to shows and going to lots of different dealers with lots of products? I’m not sure how you.
01:20:00
Edgar Kramer: Products, how do you gauge. That’s the thing.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Edgar Kramer: So, yeah, exposure to as much as possible. You know, different sounds, different philosophies.
Andrew Hutchison: Know what’s possible, basically.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, exactly. So there’s no point just liking audio for a while and then just buying a you know, 300 stand mount and then tearing it to shreds and then putting on a headline on the YouTube saying worst speaker I’ve ever heard.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, we could go on about the the click. The click-baity headlines.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. And we gotta, we gotta, we have to get past that clickbait. You know, just spot it a mile away and filter it out. Don’t fall for it, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: So anyway, well, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve run some tests on the clickbait headlines. and I, I, nine times out of ten they never even touch on the on the question that was raised in the headline. so that’s Right, right, exactly.
Edgar Kramer: Deal with it.
Andrew Hutchison: No, they don’t deal with it. It’s just. Yeah, yeah, it’s just to get you to. It’s like boating videos with some hot bikini clad chick in the thumbnail.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: And you’re like, yeah, maybe I should just, you know, maybe, maybe I should just have a quick look. No, no, no, that, that frame’s not even in the video. Of course people are listening now going, why are you trying to Find bikini clad chicks on YouTube. YouTube? I’m not. They are. I’m m looking at a car video discussing some, you know, the new Speedo, indication system on the XYZ something or other. And then there’s thumbnails over on the right. Trying to break my concentration. so, yeah, the wonders of YouTube. So overall you’re you’re not that impressed by the sound of it.
Edgar Kramer: I mean there are some guys that are doing like, some really good guys that are doing, doing stuff, you know, that based on lots of experience and maybe even written reviews for many years and then they branched out into YouTube or doing both still, you know, YouTube and written reviews. There’s a few guys that are doing that, but there’s also a hell of a lot of guys who are just jumping on the bandwagon, you know, and making, and trying to make an income from YouTube.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, the bandwagon being. I mean a people probably look at Mr. Darko and go, oh, I could do that. And and it’s not easy what he does. Well, I think it’s not easy and I think he’s been doing it now for Well, I’m trying to think probably 15 years I guess, which is a reasonable.
Edgar Kramer: And he’s really good at it. Yeah, he’s very, very good at it. And yeah, so he’s obviously one of the guys when I’m talking about the good guys that are doing great work. He’s one of them. M. And there are a couple of others.
Andrew Hutchison: So yeah, yeah, he’s, he’s easy to watch, easy to listen to and and takes. It cuts a nice, a nice balance between having an opinion and sort of, you know, but saying basically your mileage may, may vary. so, and really ultimately any review is only the opinion of the reviewer, of course, you know, and correct.
Edgar Kramer: So I think that a reader or a watcher or whatever you want to call it should take on board, you know, what they read or watch from an experienced, reviewer. But then go out there and listen. Go out to a retailer and listen for yourself, preferably within the context of your own system if you can. If you’ve got a friendly retailer that would loan you the gear, and if not, go in there and take your own integrated app or whatever.
Andrew Hutchison: Retailers everywhere are cursing you right now.
Edgar Kramer: sorry, retailers, but if you want to sell, this is the way to do it.
Andrew Hutchison: Ideally they would request that you just bring some money and a preference for a product. But but yeah, what color, what.
Edgar Kramer: Color would you have?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. No, a truly good retailer should be quite happy to at least find an amplifier that’s close to yours if you’re listening to speakers and a source that’s the same. Or, yeah. Or happy to happily accommodate bringing your own in and wiring it up, take.
Edgar Kramer: A credit card swipe and. And you know, and then return it or, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, that’s. The other way is to try it at home. But I mean, it’s, I think, it cuts both ways though. I think you need to, If you’ve developed a great relationship with the retailer because you’ve made decisions before and bought from them, then not a problem. But you can’t really use retailers as a sort of demonstration facility, then say 26 online. So, it’s.
Edgar Kramer: That’s, that’s. Well, that’s morally wrong. Right?
Andrew Hutchison: It’s morally wrong.
Edgar Kramer: And yeah, you wasted someone’s time for three, four hours listening to shitloads of stuff and then, oh, thank you very much. And then you piss off and buy something online for, like you say, 30 bucks.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, quite often the savings are much smaller than the time invested by the retailer. And if the retailer was, you know, not particularly friendly and rude about it and really didn’t care and sucked, then, yeah, sure, don’t buy it there.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: But when they perform, the thing is, it costs an enormous amount of money to, staff a store, stock a store and open it every day. And you know, frankly, no one in the audio business is making a lot of money.
You’ve got an electric car, which is kind of cool
So if you feel you, you can save a little bit. Just remember
01:25:00
that, Yeah, no one’s ordering new Ferraris this week. that’s right. except you, of course. Now, how is that car going?
Edgar Kramer: awesome. Yeah, every time I, Every time I drive it, I, I’ve got. I get a smile on my face.
Andrew Hutchison: Think of all those backhand issues.
Edgar Kramer: I’ll mention the brand before I get. Before I get shot.
Andrew Hutchison: No, no, it’s not. Not a Ferrari. And I’m not even. I didn’t even mean to mention cars, but, but, you do have a. Just to show that you’re. Well, yes, but it’s better. It’s faster, isn’t it? But,
Edgar Kramer: But yes, it is faster, actually. It is faster and, ah, much more comfortable.
Andrew Hutchison: So you’ve got a, You’ve got a. The current Tesla Model 3, which you’re very proud of, understandably. It’s a very nice car. And, I only mentioned it really. Well, completely Unintentional because I was just making a gag about Ferraris. But, the fact that we’re rolling in money in this business and therefore are always ordering a new one because the other one’s ashtrays are full. But, the tyres down a bit on the front left corner. But the, But yeah, you did shit yourself a new car recently. And they’re very affordable actually. But, as a modern thinker, not, not an old guy stuck in a rut. Yeah. You’ve got an electric car, which is, kind of cool.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah. No, and I’ve had, you know, some very nice, petrol cars before that. And I don’t know if this is worth worth mentioning. I used to review technology in cars, like auto technology.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay, Right.
Edgar Kramer: And I was one of the first journalists in Australia to drive the, Model S when it came out.
Andrew Hutchison: So that’s how you got a taste for it.
Edgar Kramer: And that was 2007, 2008. Yeah, that’s how I got a tape. Yeah, that’s how I got a taste for it. And, and it’s. And you know, in my opinion, and without getting political, it’s kind of like the way to go, isn’t it?
Andrew Hutchison: Well, it’s. If you like the whale of a V8 or a V12, then it’s not.
Edgar Kramer: The way to go.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. But I tell you what, in every other way, it’s completely impressive. And yeah, for those, I mean, I’m, you know, I’m quite happy to drive a petrol engine car for the fun factor and the value for money, but I’d say, tell you what, I would be looking very, very closely and I don’t know how we got onto this subject because it’s not really our.
Edgar Kramer: Not sure, but that’s okay.
Andrew Hutchison: But yeah, I, I, having very kindly been allowed to drive your car briefly, I have to say I was completely impressed and we’ll stop talking about cars. but I suppose the most important thing is that it wasn’t a backhander from the people at, Wilson Audio. So, moving right along.
Edgar Kramer: That’s right.
Andrew Hutchison: I have one other question before we wrap this, I think, very interesting podcast up.
Reviewers very rarely speak out of review mode
well, we don’t talk to reviewers. Right. I mean, reviewers are kind of. Reviewers very rarely speak out of review mode, if you know what I mean. I mean, there’s no interviews with John Darko talking about reviewing or is there? I don’t think there is.
Edgar Kramer: Not that I know there might have been one maybe I saw a few years ago, but, no one watched. Yeah, and I got, yeah, there’s, there’s a European publication that interviewed me a few years ago.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Edgar Kramer: but a print, it was a print one I think and. Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, yeah you’re probably right.
Andrew Hutchison: I think it’s a good, good place for you to be able to put forward your thoughts on how the process works, etc. But we’ve covered a lot of that and the fact that you know, you try to aim for consistency and you don’t have too many personal preferences and even if you do, you of course set them aside. When you’re discussing a particular product, you set them aside.
Edgar Kramer: I mean I, I love, and I mean I love valves. I’ve got a, my preamp is a valve preamp. I also like the power and the control and the resolution and detail of solid state amplifiers. So I, in a way I have best work both worlds because I, you know, have both technologies.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Edgar Kramer: I also like you know, open baffle speakers and I like ribbon tweeters and horn speakers. Whoa. The ones that, the ones that don’t have the honking sound. Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: There are still some horns that sound a bit honky but some are of course quite amazing.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, quite amazing. You know, dynamic and yeah, you know, m. So so yeah, I’m kind of open minded and I think you have to be. If you, if you’re too set in your ways and you are blind to opportunities from other technologies then you don’t make, in my opinion, you don’t make for a very open minded reviewer or a very informed reviewer.
Andrew Hutchison: No, I guess that comes back to the YouTube thing where the people are laying down the, the, the law as they see it, are immediately opening themselves up to you not being capable to make a decent judgment on many products. And Yeah, I, I think in fact for me when I go to a show and listen to different things that if it’s a horn speaker, which I’m not generally an enormous fan of, I appreciate what they do with you know, the, the, the sensitivity and the ability to run particular amplifiers that, you know, a single ended tube amp, that’s not normally something that would work well with a low impedance, low sensitivity box. speaker speaker. Yeah, yeah, I mean I get that. But I mean sometimes
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Andrew Hutchison: I’m, I go oh yeah, ho hum, it’s a bit honky and that’s not really what, what I want to listen to. But then others are just so amazing that you, you’re probably even more impressed because you’re not necessarily a, a fan of that type of design. But the only reason you became less of a fan is because so often people get it wrong and hear, I mean this is a thing that we, maybe we don’t want to talk about at this late juncture, but there are, there are, it’s a trap, I guess, for, for the, for the consumer to fall into is only listening for one particular aspect of performance and then buying into a particular, particular kind of equipment because it does that one thing well. And that’s the thing that I, I suppose historically has annoyed me. do you. I mean you probably don’t bump into that so much because you’re not dealing with a broad range of people, you’re dealing with a broad range of products. But I mean it is, it is a trap, isn’t it?
Edgar Kramer: I mean, yeah, it is a trap. I mean I used to, like I said, I used to belong to the audiophile society in New South Wales. And I was, like I said I was the president for a couple, couple of years or a year and a half. So, so we had all sorts of members, you know. So the members had varied, you know, tastes and biases and so on. so yeah, you know, I do come across those sorts of people and there are there were a few members that were kind of totally close minded and basically whatever they thought was correct and everyone else was wrong or whatever system they had is the best system and everyone else is wrong. So whatever system you have now, that can’t be any good because the system that I have and the components that I have are the best.
Andrew Hutchison: So yeah, it’s it’s that and that’s. I mean, look, we become tribal, you.
Edgar Kramer: Know, It’s a tribal thing.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. And it’s kind of absolutely like politics, motorbikes, you know, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right. All right, well, we won’t actually go down, down that rabbit hole because it’s kind of pointless. And but it’s, it’s an observation that if you are thinking, you know, that certain types of products, you know, like tube amplifiers, for instance, A all sound the same and B are useless, then you would be terribly disappointed because they all sound different and some are very tuby and some not so much. And you should keep an open mind.
Andrew Hutchison: Thank you Edgar Kramer
So look, we may m. We may have got there. I think Edgar, I think we’ve covered a lot of ground and I think certainly really appreciate your input. and your, your point, of view, from someone who is, as I’ll say it again, probably the most widely experienced listener, reviewer factory, visitor and probably show goer, in the country just simply because you’ve done it as a job for so long and and I think you’ve done it in a way that, that other reviewers probably don’t, where they are kind of not so much a regular visitor to the rest of the world. so, so thanks for that. Yeah, well, absolutely, yeah, not so much luck, but just good work, good planning and you know, and doing a good job. anyone’s got any questions of Edgar, they should of course, either contact him at his website, soundstageaustralia.com I think it’s got on the end of it.
Edgar Kramer: No, no, no, australia.com.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, once again, link will be on our website and of course you can ask questions on the YouTube, version of this recording, which no one listens to because everyone listens to it in their favorite podcast app. But certainly a place you can ask questions and otherwise send us an email. We get it. We get quite a few emails actually and you will be answered.
Edgar Kramer: So.
Andrew Hutchison: So, yeah, thanks again.
Edgar Kramer: It’s been great to be. Great to be on the other side, you know, because I’m normally interviewing. Ah, yes, it’s great to be the interviewee for a change, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s much more relaxing. Well, is it? I hope it has been so.
Edgar Kramer: Yeah, yeah, sort of.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, sort of.
Edgar Kramer: You’ve done it. You’ve done a great job, Andrew. So thank you.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, thank you. Thank you Edgar. and thank you everybody. And yes, Edgar Kramer in the. Andrew Hutchison. And we’re signing off and we’ll be back in a couple of weeks with a new episode. Thanks again. If you’ve enjoyed the show and you must have because you made it this far, can you please perhaps give us a five star review, if that’s what they call it, on the platform that that you prefer. So thanks again for listening. See you in the next episode.
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