Not An Audiophile – The Podcast featuring episodes with David Price, International Editor-in-Chief for StereoNet. The man behind the world’s view of HiFi brands lets us inside his review processes, his love of HiFi, music and classic cars and his job as gatekeeper for quality control of global reviews.
Podcast transcripts below – Episode 036
TRANSCRIPT
The reason I’ve got hi Fi system at home is I love music
>> Andrew Hutchison: The reason I’ve got hi Fi system at home is I love music. I keep playing it and I’ve been on this, you know, I hate to use this phrase because it’s like an American sort of chat show. I’ve been on a journey.
>> Andrew Hutchison: You said it. You said it.
>> Andrew Hutchison: I know, I know. have to edit that out later.
Len Wallis Audio has been guiding hi Fi enthusiasts on their audio journey
>> Andrew Hutchison: And we are back. Not an audiophile. The podcast, episode 36, season two. It’ll be season three eventually. Today, a little bit of news, a little bit of a mini rant. It’s more of an educational chat than a rant. And a very interesting interview with a highly both regarded and experienced High Fi reviewer, Mr. David Price. Are you craving incredible sound? I think we all are. Well, those listening to this podcast. For over 47 years, Len Wallis Audio has been guiding hi Fi enthusiasts on their audio journey. They’re not some corporate machine, just a tight knit crew of audiophiles and entertainment lovers obsessed with great sound. From precision turntables to immersive home theater systems, they handpick gear that delivers. Stop by the store in Lane Cove, Sydney, Australia or visit lenwallisaudio.com Len Wallis Audio where your passion finds its sound.
This episode is up one week early because we are reporting on Melbourne hi fi show
Just a quick news flash. Yes, this episode is up one week early. The next episode will be in two weeks. Why is this? We will be as a media partner of the Melbourne hi fi show, we will be there reporting from the 29th to the 31st of August. You should be there. If you’re in Melbourne, you should be at the show. If you’re somewhere else, you should fly to Melbourne and go to the show. If you’re at the show and you see us, you should say hello, we’ll have not an audiophile badges on. You should ask for one. And if you follow the show, we will give you one follow show anyhow, why not? And then you would have automatically got this episode. We will be producing some YouTube videos and interviewing many of the interesting guests. And there are some interesting guests at this show. So see you there. And in hi fi news.
Sonus Faber have released loudspeakers to match Lamborghinis
Well, loudspeaker news anyhow, I guess two, opposite polarity if you like loudspeaker offerings, have been released that I like the look of I have no idea how they sound because I’ve only seen pictures and read, read some some text. But Sonus Faber, well known for their beautiful timber veneers and you know, Italian speedboat transom style joinery. have released something with paint on it and they are to replicate apparently the appearance of various models of Lamborghinis. And so for Lamborghini owners who wish to obtain a pair of loudspeakers that match their car perfectly, potentially assuming you have a current model, with current colors, there’s five colors available, for Amiga, 220,000 Australian dollars. You can have a pair of Sonus Fabers in the Lamborghini color of your choice. I have to say they look really, really good. the price, that’s not going to worry the Lamborghini owner, although it does bring up an interesting point, which is the cars are probably too cheap. so you buy the car for a million bucks thereabouts. But it’s 220 or $230,000 for a pair of speakers to match it. so the speaker’s a bit of wood with a bit of paint on it with some drive units in it, admittedly limited to 50 pairs. But then how many cars do they make? I don’t know. It’s a slightly embarrassing not great enough price difference in my opinion. Now and the bottom end of the market, which is not the bottom end of the market but the far more affordable end, epos, which is, or EPOS depending on which school you went to, is a, is a, is an interesting brand of loudspeakers, both originally in the 80s and, and under the, under the current guidance of Fink Team. It’s they’ve added a third model. It’s a floor stander and I recommend that you go and have a, go and have a quick. On the Internet it’s the 28. And the things I like about it are just the elegance of the styling, the simplicity. I have no idea once again how it sounds. Based on the other EPOS speakers at the moment I think it’ll sound very nice. And they also look quite, quite smart. But this one as a floor stander, it just has a simplicity and an elegance that appeals, right down to the complete lack of bogus hi Fi jewelry loudspeaker terminals in the form of a couple of 4 millimeter banana sockets on the back. And that’s all you get. And a sticker. And I like it.
Now hi Fi rants, if that wasn’t one, there’s something we should talk about and this is this, this very brief article, if we call it that is directed perhaps at those new to the to the hi Fi craziness that is the audiophile world. And that is Reviews and reviewers often write about, you know, veils were lifted and, dramatic improvements were made. And, these things are a game changer. Other outrageous superlatives. And then you find out they’re talking about comparing three different USB cables. these things bug me a lot. So I’ve, I’ve prepared a brief list for those that are sort of new to comparing various bits of hi Fi kit. The kind of differences you could actually expect depending on what the equipment is. So there are things, I think that are, that offer quite large differences. You know, you try a different something or other, and there’s a very big and obvious difference between the way it sounds and how much fun you’re having listening to it. And then there’s medium differences and then there’s small differences and then there’s slightly politically incorrectly in audio lovers circles, I’ll say kooky differences. These are differences that are so subtle that it is largely down to the, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s personal choice and interpretation and the mood you’re in and what you’ve been drinking, I think to some degree.
So large differences, room acoustics and loudspeakers. That’s all there is. These two things make enormous differences. everything else in hi Fi is a medium or smaller difference or maybe a really tiny kooky difference. in my opinion, and of course, if you have a tiny pair of monitor loudspeakers and a giant pair of floor standers, the difference is really obvious. Now between tiny, small monitor speakers. The differences may not be so large, but they will still be like, as measurements go, these will be decibels m different at different frequency ranges to any other speaker. So if we’re talking, you know, multiple decibels difference in the amount of output level, then we are not talking about the difference between either fitting or not fitting your, you know, titanium floor spikes in your speakers. So these are, big differences,
medium differences. Cartridges, speaker placement, I think makes an important difference, but probably more of a medium level of difference compared with the actual speakers and the room acoustics themselves. amplifiers, turntables, these are things that offer, medium levels of difference. So when a reviewer is writing about two different amplifiers that he likes or she likes, the differences are probably going to be audible to you and probably worthwhile. same with turntables. And of course there’s, you know, some would say there’s large differences in turntables. If we compare the famous or the infamous piece of crap Crossley to say, a Denon. and of course it is a very large difference. but in reality if we compare say an entry level project to a mid price project turntable, the differences are medium. Now, smaller differences, there’s lots of smaller differences. There’s lots of things that make worthwhile small improvements. And reviewers could compare different brands or different items and make comment and it’s something you’re possibly going or probably going to hear. Just, and these are things like cabinets that you put your equipment on, particularly turntables, perhaps speaker stands, cables, CD players, Dacs streamers. I know, I know, people are squealing going well my streamer is dramatically better than you know, do a blind test, make it difficult on yourself so that it really is the audible difference. And I’m sorry but the difference between streamers is, is small, it’s worthwhile and I, I’m happy to pay more for a better streamer. I enjoy it more. I enjoy it because it’s a brand I like. looks better, it’s more beautifully made, it might be made in a fancier factory. These are all things that I’m happy to pay for and will enjoy as part of the ownership experience. But we are talking about audible differences here and I feel, you know, once again perhaps, not everyone will agree but the differences are quite small but worthwhile. They’re just not great value for money.
Should I mention the kooky differences? Well I’ve already mentioned USB cables and I think we, we all know what else you can bump, you know, bunch in with with that. So when people are reviewing power cables and telling you how great this thousand dollar power cable is, be assured that when you compare it with the $4 one from Jaycar, the differences are tiny. We’ll leave it at that and we’ll be on with the show.
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Today we’ve got David Price on the line, so to speak. No, we don’t have him in the studio but he has made himself available and we very much appreciate it. David, you you probably don’t want me to say this but you’re a bit of a legend in hi fi reviewing circles.
>> David Price: I don’t know. I mean you know when I go to shows obviously people know me. and that’s been the case in the UK for quite a while.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: You know really going back to the sort of mid late 90s simply because you go to a hi Fi show or you go to the sort of hi Fi shows I used to go to.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: and you know it’s full of hi fi World readers and they, they, they had a kind of You know it was almost like being a member of a gang basically. you know it was a very small gang but they were pretty close knit and a slightly strange gang as well if I’m honest. But you know, very, very good humored.
>> David Price: Well you know that’s kind of. I was gonna almost say that’s what it’s about. But of course that’s not what it’s about. It’s all very serious. It’s about you know, equipment and quality of reproduction. But But I guess a lot of the time at shows at least or when you get together with friends in the trade, it’s It is Indeed. You know, fun times really. But Yeah, I, and so it should be. I’m just
Do you have an interest in cars or hi Fi equipment
I’ve got a, I’ve got a couple of. Not serious questions in the slightest but a couple of doing. I mean I met you briefly at Munich and I appreciate your time there having a chat. And we, we we did talk about a gentleman
>>Andrew Hutchison: Who you knew. Who I knew of. And And that was a great story and I guess and we may touch on. For whatever reason because actually we may touch on that gentleman simply because he had an interest in both cars and audio or hi Fi equipment. And that’s. Although there’s a thread running through hifi viewing and the hi Fi trade in general that they have an interest. Yeah, people quite often have an interest in both things. Do you have an interest in cars? Because I just heard something on something I was checking into to doing some research and you’ve apparently or either have or did have a tr. Ah seven. Now that’s, that’s.
>> David Price: Yeah that’s. That’s for my sins before you sins. Yeah, I mean you know I’m very much into cars and motorbikes and You know basically anything with an engine that, that moves. Ah. And you know in the summer months I kind of tend to play with my sort of small collection of old bangers, as some people call them. Yeah, unkindly.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Classic cars.
>> David Price: Yeah. And you know, and obviously in the winter it’s in the uk you’re, you’re pretty much housebound. It’s not much fun lying under, you know, an old car in. As it rains and it’s kind of, you know, -5 outside in Denver or whatever. so, you know, I tend to focus on hi Fi. I love obviously, fiddling around with hi Fi and sort of restoring speakers and turntables and that kind of thing as well. But in the summer I’m definitely you know, at weekends to be found messing around with old cars. And mostly, I mean I’ve got several Jaguars, from sort of 1970s onwards.
>> Andrew Hutchison: You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? So.
>> David Price: I know, I know it’s. You know, there should be a medication you can get from a pharmacy for it basically. and certainly have saved me a lot of money if that was available. and you know, also I quite like sort of. I’ve got a TR7. I’ve got Rover SD1.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, really?
>> David Price: Okay. I’ve got, you know, m. You may remember that from the 70s, the sort of big, sort of big sort of coupe type, Rover. Oh, the big.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, the big. The big Rover with the big hatchback.
>> David Price: Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Was it a hatch? I don’t know if it was a hatch, but it looked like it should have been.
>> David Price: Yeah, it was Absolutely. It was a hatch. And it was a kind of, you know, at the time thought of as being an outrage because they’re all proper executive cars were booted, you know, three box saloons. And this one was a two box. And But every then in the 80s, every, every other car copied it. So you know, kind of did.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, no, that’s. That’s kind of cool. So, yeah. So obviously, you indeed fit into. What I’m suggesting is that that cross, Pollen. Next you’ll be telling me you like planes or something as well. Although, But yeah, bikes. Bikes too. I mean we might as well just. We might as well just cover off on bikes while we’re at it.
As soon as you sell your car, it doubles in value
What do you, what do you like? What do you like in a motorcycle? What’s what’s.
>> David Price: Well, Fun. So, you know, I’ve had loads of bikes. I mean over the years I probably ever had. Had over a hundred.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Wow.
>> David Price: that’s a solid. You know, when When I was, When I was sort of 19, 20, I didn’t have cars. I had bikes and I probably had about three or four of them at the same time. And you know, I was just nuts about them. And I, I had. I used to love the old, big Suzuki Two Strokes. Oh, wow. Okay. As, as road bikes or, or trial bikes. and also loved. Which is completely the opposite kind of experience, sort of Honda across the frame, fours, you know, Four Strokes rather than Two Strokes.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: and and then I went. I had a phase of kind of V4 Hondas like the VF500 Interceptor and the VFR. Ah, 750.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: and then I had a BMW phase. and then I’ve sort of, you know, had a. Well, it’s, it’s. Then I’ve sort of got into small. I had a Honda CB Super 4, which was like a 400 across the frame. A, really lovely, rev E bike with no torque. Yeah. Loads of power.
>> Andrew Hutchison: What are they revved to 16 or 17 grand or something?
>> David Price: They. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, the power bands basically from about 15 to 16, isn’t it?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Something like that.
>> David Price: It’s quite hard to ride. Quite hard to ride around town anyway. But, Yeah, So I’ve just had lots of bikes and lots of cars over the years. I’ve. I’ve probably had about 40 Jaguar XJ saloons over the years. Wow. You know, and Lotuses and all the rest of it. So actually thinking about it now, my car collection is quite modest. and sadly most of the ones I’ve got are basically in a barn and about a very long way away from being legally back on the road. What happens if you leave them for too long and not fix that them?
>> David Price: So, yeah, it’s, I’ve been through that phase and I, I didn’t think I’d ever grow out of it, but I kind of did. I just kind of got sick of having cars kicking around and filling up various workshops that I had instead of, having space for hi fi equipment. It was full of rotten old alphas, which, were never going to be worth anything in my opinion. And then. So I sold them all and then they all went up dramatically in value.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, that’s the first rule of classic car collecting. As soon as you sell your car, it doubles in value. So, Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So moving sideways. So the, the car collection and the bike collection I can understand. But as someone who’s worked, for so long in, in the hi fi industry. and, and we might get you to punctuate the facts of this, but my understanding is mostly doing reviews. But m. A lot of people who, you know, they work in the audio industry, the last thing they want to do really when they go home is muck around with more hi fi. And I, I say that from. Say that from personal experience. for many years I didn’t even have a system at home because I was so. You know, I was in hi fi retail. And I obviously listened to equipment all day and or played it for people. And when I got home, one thing I wasn’t going to do was turn a stereo on.
>> Andrew Hutchison: But in your. My understanding at least. And, and please fill us in, is that you have a bit of a solid collection of audio equipment as well.
>> David Price: Yeah. so, I mean I, I’ve. I know it’s a complete cliche because everybody who’s into hi fi says that they love music. And, and I think that’s generally fair enough. You know, I mean there are. I have met some people who’ve, you know, in the past have had like a top lin name system and own three LP records that they play them on.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So. Right.
>> David Price: Generally people. Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So you’ve actually like. Is that a, is that, is that another one of those old wives tales? Or have you actually met someone who really was so deeply into the equipment?
>> David Price: Yes.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: I’ve met one or two. One or two of those people. I mean maybe not three, maybe like 15 or something. But you know, basically they, they.
I think British, um, television is moronic. I think American television is even worse
They decided to buy the hi fi first and then start filling in the gaps with the music later. But ah. you know, I mean everybody. We all love music really, don’t we?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Of course.
>> David Price: And you know, I, I could listen to it on, on, you know, in fact I did, you know, on my kind of Pioneer cassette stereo in my TR7 with worn out permalai heads, you know, and really enjoy it. but You know, it’s just been Like every. I think everyone thinks this way. It’s like a kind of hi fi is like kind of. It’s. It’s a way of unlocking the music, isn’t it? And opening up the door so you’re like fully there in the. You know, in the
space as it were, in the moment. And you know, I’ve just always had that in my life and you know, had this thing from. Well, for a very long time. I, I’m just not interested in television. I Think British, television is moronic. I mean, I think American television is even worse.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Ultra moronic.
>> David Price: Sorry, yeah, sorry.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Our American listeners, but we have quite a few of them.
>> David Price: Yeah. You know, I mean there are some great, there are always, you know, there’s some great sort of individual examples that disprove the rule. I mean, you know, kind of Breaking Bad and Hill Street Blues, you know, some amazing pieces of high art that came out via the medium of television. and also obviously in the UK as well, we’ve got some, we have some great stuff. But you know, the day to day sort of chat show, daytime thing, you know, it’s so bland and vanilla and kind of milk toast and you know, it’s just soul destroying. So I, I’ve never had a TV and in the uk. Hang on, you, you’ve, you, you’ve never had one? Well, I’ve, I’ve never had a TV that I use as a tv, if that makes any sense. So. Yeah, okay, so you used it for watching DVDs.
>> Andrew Hutchison: We needed to watch Breaking Bad on something. Right. Otherwise you wouldn’t know it existed. But yeah, okay, because you didn’t see it. I mean, see it at the theater, or the cinema.
>> David Price: Yeah, well, I’d love to, but
In order to watch live broadcast television in the UK, anyone anywhere has to have license
Is that in the UK specifically? Because the way the BBC is funded in the UK is you need to buy a TV license to watch broadcast live broadcast television.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Hang on, so are you telling me that the license is still a thing?
>> David Price: Yes, it is.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay, so how does someone who’s not certainly visited the UK on many occasions, but of course as a visitor, you don’t need to have a TV license. So. And the people that I know there’s, when I’ve visited their homes, they’ve never, they’ve never had it sort of framed on the wall. So it’s not, it’s really just a bill that comes in the mail, I guess for paying. Is that, is that.
>> David Price: Yeah, I mean it’s a bizarre anachronism and But it’s, it’s basically you. In order to watch live broadcast television in the uk, anyone anywhere has to have a license. License. So you, you. There’s a. One license per household. So obviously if you’ve got five kids and a wife, you know, they don’t.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Have to, they don’t all have to be license holders.
>> David Price: You have to have one license per television household.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: and that’s in the UK now, I think it’s roughly about 160, 170 pounds a year.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: And so I basically, you know, I just decided I never bothered to buy a license because I never wanted to watch anything on television that whenever I saw television at my friends houses or whatever, you know, so I never had, I had a television with a, with a Scott socket or you know, hdmi, DVD or a Blu Ray player. Yep. And I’ll buy, you know, box sets, DVD boxes or whatever. And, and, and now, you know, you can you can also, of course you can stream video these days as well obviously. But, but I’ve never actually gone into the part of my television which goes on to BBC1, BBC2.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So yeah, no antenna plugged in, so to speak.
>> David Price: Yeah, absolutely no antenna plugged in. And no antenna ever needed and you know, no interest in watching anything. And if I want to watch sport and I’ll go down the pub to watch the World cup or whatever. so, you know, and I just find that it’s great because it, you know, you just then have massive amounts of time.
>> Andrew Hutchison: There. Is that. Because I mean, that’s too true. I mean. And although to some degree the glories of Facebook and Instagram have probably replaced free to air TV as the biggest waste of time in people’s lives. But how, just before we move away from the subject of the of the TV license, how are they policing that these days? Or is it, or is it not really?
>> David Price: I mean, well, I mean it’s a fascinating thing. they used to have TV detector vans which in theory could work. You could read the ultra high frequency with you know, radio frequency emissions coming from the old cathode ray tube TVs. If you had a massive aerial and you sat right outside the house. but I think it’s very difficult to do that these days. So basically just have people come round to your house and keep asking you what if you’ve got a television license? and it’s insane. And even more insane is the fact that people go to prison if they don’t pay it. So, you know, it’s so funny but it’s actually sad because it’s genuinely affects, you know, low income women generally. Yeah, well, it’s in prison or honestly.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Hang on, hang on. So you’re quite serious though? It’s.
>> David Price: I’m totally serious. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So if you can’t stump up the hundred, was it one 170 pound a year or something?
>> David Price: Yes, it is.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So you, and you get caught with a TV tuned to a free to air channel, BBC One. Or what have you.
>> David Price: Or itv.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Or itv. Yeah. So. And then I suppose the get out of it is that you’ve got the TV but you don’t have an antenna. Although.
>> David Price: Ah. So you can, what you can do is. And what I’ve done always is just write and say, dear, you know, television licensing. I don’t, I don’t watch broadcast television live, you know. And that’s it, you know. And it’s. For whatever reason, it seems to work for me because I don’t watch it. I don’t have. I don’t watch it off air, you know, live on air or whatever. I just watch DVDs or, you know, play hi Fi really and play my music. And I’ve got systems in most rooms in my house. Different ones, not one multi room. you know, and I’ve got a lot of music. I’ve got 5, 5, 6, 7,000. I haven’t counted them LP, so got quite a few thousand CDs now. obviously I, you know, stream as well. and you know, large collection music on cassette as well, which is kind of recorded off the radio in the 80s. That’s probably illegal. So.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Another light. No, for my own personal licensing issue.
>> David Price: so, yeah, I’m not, I’m not selling them a bootleg Glastonbury. no. So, yeah, you know, I mean, and we’ve, everyone, we’ve got busy lives. So I mean, the point is, is that, the reason I’ve got hi Fi system at home is I love music, I keep playing it and I’ve been on this, you know, I hate to use this phrase because it’s like an American sort of chat, show. I’ve been on a journey.
>> Andrew Hutchison: You said it. You said it.
>> David Price: I know, I know. to edit that out later, you know, to get the very best sound to my taste.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
People have wildly differing tastes in motorcycles, says
>> David Price: and, you know, I fully get that people have wildly differing tastes. So just as with cars, you know, some people think, a big suv, you know, sort of big Range Rover or something is the greatest thing ever. And other people want to. Lotus Elise or whatever they’re called these days, that the latest, you know, sort of mini ultralight sports car.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: You know, and other people just want a sensible, you know, solid German C class estate car. Mercedes or something. you know, so we’ve all got our different, Yeah, absolutely.
>> Andrew Hutchison: It’s actually, it’s a great analogy because. And, and, and you as a motorcycling person will get this That, I mean for someone outside of the motorbike world, they’re all just got two wheels and an engine. Right. And But to us fools who like the things and have, you know. Yes. there are umpteen, there’s probably 25 different, very subtly, not to us, not subtly different types of motorbike and we wouldn’t be caught dead on some of them. So.
>> David Price: Yeah, that’s so true and it’s. Sorry to interrupt. it’s a great point because you’ve got, I mean you think about Honda’s range in the 90s for example, and you think just in the kind of middleweight 500cc, they had like about 10 different bikes. You know, one’s got a V twin, one’s got a, you know, across the frame four one’s a parallel twin, one’s a single, one’s a. You know, some are trail bikes, some are road bikes, some are sports bikes, some are cafe races. Yes. And that’s all across like 500cc level roughly. and bikers fully get this. It’s like you know, you want a kind of retro cafe racer styled single CC XBR500R, you know, with a, with a, with a single seat, you know.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: and sort of low strong handlebars and a big tank and whatever. and you know somebody else wants a transalp, you know, sort ah, of V twin or whatever, 650, trial bike, trial tourer. So the motorcycle world gets very instinctively that people have incredibly personal requirements out of a motorbike. and the hi Fi world just sort of. It doesn’t really, we don’t really talk about it. No. You know, we’ve had, we’ve had valve versus transistor, maybe valve versus solid state.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: And you know, and we’ve had you know, vinyl versus CD or analog versus digital or whatever and we’ve had sort of. But generally it’s all, it’s much more generic and it’s only when you go to places like the Munich hi Fi show, where you see a massive diversity of products aimed at very different people.
>> David Price: Yeah. And, and there’s an acceptance of it. I mean I think and, and this probably goes full circle
back to reviewing a little bit. Is that you know, there’s some. Not so much. Maybe the reviewers even. But the readers of the review are like that’s, you know, that can’t be the case. Ra ra.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Ah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Because you know, I’ve heard this and this was the way it was and da da da da. Now it’s or might be a functionality issue or it might be literally what you say, digital versus analog or albums versus you know, CDs or what have you. But the streaming, when really every one of these things has a purpose in the same way as every kind of different motorcycle has a purpose for those particular people that want to do that particular thing with it. And so there is. I mean there’s largely an acceptance in motorcycles. I think everyone sniggers at Harley owners a little bit. But I mean it’s you know, but, but you know, and then like they like to dress up a bit, you know. And you know, so there’s that. But really, I mean, I don’t know what the I mean maybe a Klipshorns or some giant Klipsch speaker is the Harley of the. Of the loudspeaker or the audio. Ah, world. I don’t know and I shouldn’t say that because maybe that’s casting Asperger’s on. On clip shown us. But it’s There is that thing where. And I quite happily accept that there’s all different kinds of audio. And what I was going to say about your multiplicity of systems around the house is that I’m, And then you sort of said something that indicated maybe they were all with. Had the same goal in mind. But I quite often have had two systems and one will be quite different to the other. You know, one’s sort of more of a late night, sort of quieter listening sort of thing that, that perhaps works best when you’re not, you know, when frankly you can’t play it too loud. And then the other system might have larger loudspeakers and a slightly more raucous presentation and frankly sounds best played loud for that kind of music that you want to play loud. Is this what your systems around the house are like? Or they or they’ve all got the same goal in mind?
>> David Price: So, I mean, that’s a great question actually. they started out like that, but they’re more now different ways of getting the same.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Fair enough.
What is the perfect sound? What are you chasing
what is the perfect sound? What are you chasing? What’s. What. What are they all like?
>> David Price: So I mean, but it depends on your. Of course, I think it depends on your music taste. So.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: I mean, so let’s. It’s a great question. And how many hours have we got? so according to my m. Display.
>> Andrew Hutchison: On my recorder, 42 hours to go.
>> David Price: So sorry I might have to stop for a break later. But Yeah. So I mean for me personally, I mean my music taste is quite varied as I’m sure many hi fi. you know, fans and audiophiles or whatever. Ah, I mean I like I like sort of 60s and 70s rock, especially progressive rock in the 70s is a big thing for me. you know, sort of earlier Genesis up to Wind and while the Wuthering, sort of 76 and obviously all the kind of, you know, kind of who from sort of who’s you know, whose next sort of period and you know, sort of early 70s onwards. and that sort of period. And then I love new wave from sort of you know, 77 sort of stranglers, Sex, but not Sex Pistols, they’re punk, but yeah, Buzz Cox undertones, that kind of stuff. And jam, the Jam, etc. And then I get into kind of 80s indie rock which I really like. also love techno and that starts with you know the Godfathers, obviously with craft work and then getting through into the kind of 80s dance kind of house, rave kind of culture. Then hardcore and drum and bass. and that those are kind of, I would say my core, My core loves. But. But you know, I absolutely adore modern jazz on Blue Note, sort of, you know, Herbie Hancock and stuff like that. But the music that I generally listen to likes to have kind of clarity and attack. Okay. And it has to have bass energy but it mustn’t be overblown. And it’s more important for it to be fast than it is to be you know, voluminous. So I’d rather have a live, punchy, taut type, low, low bass than very ah, fulsome, kind of bouncy, you know, kind of soft bass. so for me the speaker I’ve ended up with is the MRN is 1000m. And that to me just does what I want better than any other speaker I’ve ever heard. And I’ve reviewed so many speakers over the years, very high end ones. I’ve done virtually every 800 1B&W& so on as they’ve come out for the last 25 years and umpteen other very high end speakers. And to me nothing gets that combination of attributes that I like, you know. So it’s like having a motorbike, you know, that you absolutely adore. It could be a Honda Fireblade and all you want is for it to go fast, stay around corners, you Know stick around corners and power out of bends really smoothly and cleanly. and you know stop on a six months. So if you find the things you like and then you build your system around it and you also you, you have to. I think the most important thing, and this is totally contrary to what people used to say in the UK 40 years ago. They used to say sort of source first. You know, you’ve got to have a great turntable or whatever. I think you’ve got to fight. It’s almost having you know I’m ah. Not just talking about a set of speakers for the bathroom or whatever. I mean, I mean your main speakers you base. It’s almost like a relationship you have with your, your. Your spouse. You know, it’s a serious relationship. You have your. With your speakers and you basically got to love them for all their vices and stick with them, you know, so.
>> Andrew Hutchison: And get the best from them somehow and. Yes, exactly now with what you plug into.
>> David Price: Indeed. So but the point is the kind of a priori, you know, before everything else choice I think you’ve got to make with hi Fi if you’re going for your ultimate system is get the speakers that are right for you, you know and spend a lot of time if you can, you know, kind of having kind of dates with speakers. You know, go to a dealer and hear some and then hear them somewhere else and so on and sort of Maybe it’s like a kind of speed dating, isn’t it going to a dem.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Well it is. And avoiding effect in what you’re suggesting or in an ideal world at least is that you avoid online dating in the sense of trying to make assumptions about how these speakers might be purely by reading about them. But that may do you out of a job. So maybe not.
>> David Price: Well, you know. Well yes and no. So I mean that’s a, that’s a brilliant point I think because I’ve always said, you know, whether when I was a kind of lowly editorial assistant at hi fi world in 1995 or as my, you know, my, my sort of the job that I’m now very proud of and I love very much, Global editor in Chief of stereonet, we always say this whenever we can treat our reviews as a kind of entry point to a discussion about what you’re going to buy.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: So I used to, it used to really rile me in the 90s to go into a newsagent and see what hi Fi and It was, it was a. We tell you the best hi fi to buy. You know, and it’s like, you know, this technique kicks ass or whatever it was. I’m paraphrasing, but basically it was like, buy our magazine and we will tell you what to do.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: And then that’s your problem solved. and I think that’s a little bit intellectually dishonest. I mean, I know obviously it’s just marketing speak, isn’t it? But, you know, and you know, when you’re writing headlines on front covers, you haven’t got a lot of space.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Not a lot of space.
>> David Price: Kind of really subtly wounded, subtly worded. Apologies. Ah. To, you know, to. To, Whoever wrote that. But, you know, the point is. But it’s just a general idea that you, you don’t. Basically it’s like a kind of. It soon. This kind of hi fi magazine thing and now online. you know, there’s a kind of assumption in a way that you’re a clueless person. You, you get enlightenment by buying a magazine. Suddenly you know everything.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
You should always treat a review as a starting point in the conversation
>> David Price: And then you go and buy it and that’s the end of. That’s the end of it, you know, and I’ve always just said, you know, treat a review as a kind of starting point in the conversation. And if you possibly can go to a dealer, you know, having got a kind of short list of things you’re interested in, go to a dealer and.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: You know, I know it’s very unfashionable to say this because obviously so many people buy online and obviously if you, if you’re in places like Australia, you know, it could be many thousands of kilometers away from a dealer.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, yes. Oh, well, unfortunately, yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s. There’s some states of Australia that literally have like, Well, actually, I think our smallest state, Tasmania might have two hi fi shops. Which, wow. Is, is not great. And one’s, at one end of the country ones. I mean, it could have changed, but in the times when I was distributing products, yeah, there was two dealers, I think the Northern Territory, one of the bigger. Well, it’s not a state, it’s a territory. But, I’m not sure it has a hi Fi shop anymore. It does have crocodiles though, so there’s always that, Yeah, look, I think, look, I love reviews. I think that they have a place both to entertain and to inform and. Yeah. That the informing part would be to give you that idea Whether in fact it falls into the category of motorcycle that you want to buy. So if you’re looking for the, you know, larger
capacity, you know, carry a bit of gear off road, traily giant trailey gSBM type of thing.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: That it should at least tell you enough that you know which category it falls into so that if it has. That has that base quality that you like, and, and does those other things that you need that you can put it on your short list, go and have a listen and see whether it lives up to its, To the. To the story. And, And I, you know, I. But yeah, as for, this is the best amp that’s ever been made at this price or whatever. rot. They probably used to say more than they do now. Well, I don’t know, maybe YouTube videos are a little bit like that because for the same reason a YouTube, You know, I was gonna say it’s not correct catchphrase, but you know, the, the. The. The catchy title that’s going to clickbait you in is literally that. It’s. It’s it’s a clickbait version of it. Well, headlines are clickbait, aren’t they? You just didn’t click it. You bought the. You bought the mag instead. But, or maybe you flicked through it initially. But you know, yeah, it’s So, yeah, I guess that’s never changed and never going to change. But
How many reviews do you think you have ever written
Hey, speaking of reviews, how many. How many reviews do you think you might have ever written? It must be. It must be a lot.
>> David Price: I’ve got absolutely no idea.
>> Andrew Hutchison: More than 10, probably less than a million.
>> David Price: I think it’s definitely the double figures. Yes. Yeah, I think that’s, I mean, I don’t know. It’s well in. Well, well into the thousands, I’d say. he.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Now hi Fi specializes in creating personalized audio experiences with brands to suit all needs and over three decades of experience. Geoff from hey now hi Fi can help find your sound for your life. Have a look at the website now. Right now you’re listening to the podcast later, but soon.
>> David Price: You know, it’s I mean it’s fascinating though because, I always had a policy, So when I was editing World, especially, World from about 2002. Well, basically the first decade of the year 2000. 2000 millennium. And then when. When I was editing hi Fi Choice, I always had a policy of never reading any of the other magazines.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, okay.
>> David Price: So I, I never read, any British Hi Fi magazine from the time I started editing magazines. Oh. And that’s because, I. I didn’t want to know what someone else thought about something.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: And I always thought that, if I did know, then it might just sort of, you know, kind of pre. suggest or auto suggest or whatever.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: I don’t know what the phrase is, but, you know, I mean, for example, One of my, sort of former colleagues at hifi World very early on was Ketan, Varandev. from. He now works for, sorry, what? Hi Fi. And Ketan’s got a great pair of ears. And we. We agree very much on stuff. So, you know, we have very similar opinions. We say, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? When we. When we meet at press trips or shows or whatever? And we generally agree a lot. So, But if I read one of his reviews and what hi Fi. Then you know, that might just sort of pre. It might just sort of roll the pitch or whatever the phrase is. So I always try to just literally sit down with a product with no, no preconceptions. No. Well, you know, hi Fi News liked it, so it’s got to be good. You know, Ken Kessler said this or, you know, Mike Fremmer said that. Stereophile or whatever. so, you know, you kind of have. You would go into something without, literally without prejudice. And, only afterwards do you find out what other people thought. Ah, but that’s just always been my way of working. And I always use a wide variety of music as well. So I mean, I think if you listen to. I mean, I love, as I say, I love kind of electronic dance and techno and I love, you know, ah, classic rock, as it were, or prog rock. But if you only ever listen to those, you’ll never really hear the timbre of the string section in an orchestra, which is an amazing thing to sense, isn’t it? It’s a sensory kind of. It’s a festival of the senses. A carnival of the senses, as somebody said.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Absolutely.
>> David Price: it’s just amazing. All those kind of tingly, you know, kind of vibrant kind of resonances coming from those strings. Incredible. And the raspberry brass, all that kind of stuff. And you just don’t get it if you. If you just listen to certain genres. Music.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Well, no, and it’s also a hell of a test for a hi Fi system as well.
>> David Price: It is. It is amazing. Absolutely. So. But at the same time, I, A good friend of mine is a classical musician and he is a great brilliant classical musician. Has incredible knowledge of classical music. And But there are bass lines, for example on Kraftwerk’s Electric Cafe, which was their sort of mid-80s album, which will melt your bass driver if it’s not up to the job. And you never hear that, you know, in any, pretty much any classical recording. Even a live recording with a massive church organ or something. Because for all of its power, church organ is an acoustic recording. It’s not plugged directly into the mix.
>> Andrew Hutchison: No, no, it doesn’t have the drive or the
You can use different kinds of acoustic sounds to test a system
>> David Price: Absolutely. So my point is, yeah, you’ve got to have a wide variety. Yeah. And piano, acoustic piano is always great. We always used to use that in the old days of analog world because you can hear like a Debussy prelude, you know, the piano. If it sounds cracked then you’ve got speed instability issues with, with turntable drive systems, set deck drive, systems or whatever. You know, basically the notes sound shaky. Piano will really tell you as will higher range violins for example. So you know, you can use different kind of acoustic sounds as kind of great diagnostic tools to see whether a system.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Absolutely.
>> David Price: You know, you can use this, a great track, early 80s on Warp Records, by a band called LFO and they’ve they’ve got a track called LFO. LFO is basically low frequency oscillation. It’s, it’s a ah, that there was a certain synthesizer that they had and they named it after the knob on the synthesizer or something. But it’s all very beautifully techno Y. But basically the track LFO by LFO has got sub base that required a legal disclaimer on the American ah, version of cd. Yeah. Saying you know, warning, this will blow your system up if you play it loud. you know, we are not eligible, we are not liable for you know, audio JBL’s exploding.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: So my point is you. There are great diagnostic tracks of all kinds of types of music which tell you, you know, how a system is doing and to just limit yourself to one genre. You know, to have you know, Randy Crawford’s Rainy Day in Georgia or whatever. you know, could be an amazing song because she’s got an incredible vocal style and amazing voice. And you know, if you’ve got a valve amplifier, you know ah, parallel single ended 3 watt valve amplifier driving you know, 98 decibels or 100 and something DB clips, you know, that will Just sound incredible through that system. M. But you then give it sort of chugging heavy rock, you know, from you know, sort of Iron Maiden or something and it’ll just fall to pieces. So you know, I mean this is the thing I think when you write reviews you’ve got to have. You’ve got to go in without prejudice. You’ve got to use a wider variety of music as you can. And also you have to be sincere in the way that you’re trying to get the best from the thing you’re reviewing as well. And you know, always used to amaze me some hi fi journalists would just stick stuff in their system which obviously would not normally work, would not go together.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: And just say, oh, it’s rubbish, you know. so in the in the UK in the late 70s, talking about my Yamaha and it’s 1,000 speakers. they were reviewed by one magazine I seem to remember by. With a guy who had a name, sorry a Lynn name system. He had a name. 32. 5 Nat. 250. so pre. Pre Power and those M Early, those mid, mid late 70s names were very. The parents were very heavily Class B biased. They were full of distortion. They’re very screechy. I mean they were huge fun to listen to but they were only great fun to listen to when you went through something like, you know, lin speakers or whatever with kind of tef.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Slightly doughy sounding, you know, ballots so to speak. Yes. Yeah.
>> David Price: With very sort of, you know, cottonwall loudspeaker drivers.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: And sort of very dead and dull sounding speakers and KEF104ABs and things like that. And you know, and then he puts the ns thousands on and it’s like bloody hell, these things. Incredibly bright. Jesus. You know. so again you’ve got to do as a reviewer you’ve got to do due diligence in the sense that you’ve got to try and get this the you know, the climate. Right. For the thing you’re reviewing.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Indeed. In fact speaking. Speaking of that balance. So the kef sounding a little you know, introverted and overly warm perhaps. versus the NS1000s. you know, that’s just how they sound. I mean we, we all have a little bit of a picture in our head or an oral picture I guess of of how things sound at least. I guess it’s a memory of how they’ve struck us when we’ve heard that particular product. But if you’ve reviewed M many thousands or well over a thousand things. Do you have a little bit
of a. When do you get to a point where you’ve listene so much with such care? You know, you’re reviewing the product so you’re listening to it properly. You’re not just meandering through a hi fi show and making gross generalizations. So you’re listening carefully. You’re. And I guess does that plant a bit of a sort of a permanent picture in your head about what a particular. If I just mention a brand out of the blue, will you go oh yeah, that sounds a bit like this. Or do you go past that at, you know, review number 999?
>> David Price: That’s a great, a great question.
So I mean obviously again, light cars or bikes or whatever
So I mean obviously again, light cars or bikes or whatever, you know, if you get into a BMW or you get into a Mercedes or you get into a Jag or whatever, you, you have a certain set of expectations, don’t you? You know, and you, you, you know, certainly in the past, you know.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Clearly you’re just hoping it’ll start, you know, like that’s.
>> David Price: Yeah, yes. So, yeah, don’t go there. the point is that you, you know, you have a clear set of expectations about what you get from the brand because brands use different technologies generally or different approaches and you know, to be, just for example for the car nuts then almost every Jag ever made has had independent, excuse me, double wishbone front rear suspension. So it’s going to drive in a certain way, more like a Lotus Esprit which has independent front rear suspension, you know, than it is a BMW which has MacPherson struts at the front and has a very different way of going down the road. And so obviously if you’re listening to a monitor audio loudspeaker with its certain drive unit technology, you know, and I’m just talking about a thousand buck, you know, entry level. then, you know, it’s going to have a certain house sound just like, you know, tannoy speakers will or nad amplifiers, you know, from literally from the mid-70s until they went Class D they had a very, you know, a, ah, very distinctive sound. And obviously the new Class D type ones are kind of sort of recreating that in a way in their own way. But so yeah, you do have preconceptions but at the same time I think, you know, for me the review process isn’t kind of formal in the sense that I sort of sit down at you know, three o’ clock in the Afternoon say right, the review begins now. You know, I’ll just, you know, as with everybody, I’m sure we just put the thing in our system and slowly, you know, get it going and sort of fiddle around with different sources and you know, try and optimize it and so on. you know, and then you just come. I mean I like to take about two weeks so I’m doing a lot of other things at the same time but you know, you have a kind of immersion period of couple of weeks at least, before you really get, you know, feel like you’re ready to write up, up the product. And you know, just for example, now I’m doing a crystal cable review that diamond to interconnects. and ah, power cord and so on. You know, I put them into my system and I had an instant difference, a very clear instant difference. And from then on I’m trying to process it and I’m trying to use it. I’m trying, you know, and it’s what’s making a difference and putting in, putting the power cord out, putting my normal power cord back in and what’s the difference, you know, so you, it’s that kind of intuitive way, isn’t it, of doing things. and that’s a good thing. And that’s, you know, if you go on a site like Stereonet, you know, we have, we make sure all our reviewers do that and you know, they take you know, painstaking trouble to make sure they’ve got the measure of something and that what they’re hearing is why, that, you know, they know why they’re hearing what they’re hearing and you know, the variables have been kind of reduced and you know, they’re basically trying to give something as good at airing as possible. And when they’ve done that they then need to contextualize the results. So once again, you don’t criticize a Lotus Elise for having no boot space, you know, or you don’t criticize a Range Rover for rolling a little bit around the Nurburgring. So you know, so you have to put everything into context and that all kind of comes together in the review and you know, my job as kind of quality controller, I suppose that’s what I really do in many ways at staring it is to try and get all of that into context and make, make everything have sense as a kind of whole. So when you read any steeringet review, you know, you know, there’s been a lot of time taken, getting everything right, getting all your kind of ducks in a row, making sure you’re hearing, you know, why you’re hearing, what you’re hearing, etc. And obviously we need to work with the manufacturers to make sure that the things we say are correct in terms of the technical description as well. We don’t let our money. The manufacturers see our subjective, you know, sort of, listening, opinions at all. But we will make sure that we. We publish is factually correct. And you’d be amazed how often that doesn’t happen, you know, in. In. Well, it tends to happen much more now in. In. In, in print. but m. On the Internet, you know, this is the problem. On the Internet. There’s just people. The. It’s just a Wild West. There’s, all kinds of stuff.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Well, yeah, okay.
>> David Price: So.
>> David Price: Yeah, well, that’s it. Is it the Wild West? I mean, I. I mean, of course it’s the Wild west, but I would have thought my involvement with reviews or reviewing is always that there is a complete disconnect between what you’re hearing and what you’re going to write about the sound, from the point of view that the manufacturer, whether I’m the manufacturer or on the reviewer. I’ve done both briefly. The point is that, yeah, you. You do not. I mean, to some degree, you sit around somewhat concerned as a manufacturer of what they’re going to say. I mean, you would like to. You would like to hope that if it was something awful, that they would have told you beforehand and said, look, sorry, Andrew, this is really a bit of a dud. We might just let this. You know, I think best. Best we don’t complete this review. Although there are probably no products, like that anymore. I mean, I think everything’s well enough made and sounds pretty bloody good that there’s no such thing as, an utter dud product. But, there certainly was not that long ago, though if we go back 20 years or so, I think that there were many products that were a bit mediocre. But, you know, so. Yeah, so that’s an important clarification you make there, that in your reviewing life that the, the manufacturer was never aware of what you were. You published your thoughts on the sound. They knew. They found out when the public found out. Is that. Is that.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, I think also.
>> David Price: And not. But not so much in the Wild West. Now you say you think that.
>> David Price: Well, no, I’m just saying that. I’m just saying that, you know, obviously Online and on YouTube and online there are some extremely good, high quality, kind of hi fi audio file related, you know, content providers, as it were. Is a horrible phrase. Yes. you know, and I think we both know that. And we, we, we, you know, but we also both know having in our view being responsible for some of that high quality content. We know that there are some very low quality stuff as well, don’t we? and so that’s why I call it the Wild, Wild West. Go in. You could come across a great brilliant online publication, you know, and or YouTube or podcast or whatever. And also there’s some bloke who’s just basically trying to scrounge a pair of headphones from Sennheiser.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, that. Yes, that part of the Wild West. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
>> David Price: And you know, I mean I’ve as when I was editing, well, I did not get into great detail, but when I was editing print, magazines in the uk, we would take on new writers every now and again. Obviously we try and do as much vetting as we can, but sometimes we would occasionally get, as it was occasionally, PR is phoning us saying, look, your new reviewers just phoned us asking for five pairs of headphones. you know, he says he’s going to do a group test.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: And ah, you know, and I’m saying, well look, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it. and I’m the editor. so, you know, and then that guy is binned, basically. Well, yeah, you know, because there are a lot of people, right at the very bottom, as it were, of the, you know, food chain, as it were, in inverted commas journalism or, or whatever, who are, you know, up to no good and blagging stuff and all that kind of stuff.
Andrew: 90% of what’s on the Internet is probably a lie
and so we, you know, that’s the situation. So I’m just saying that we have to people who make quality products, whether it’s an editorial, you know, product like Stere Net or you know, yourself, Andrew, on your podcast or whatever, we have to do our very best to make our stuff, as high quality as possible to differentiate ourselves from some of the, you know, the sort of freeloaders, don’t we?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Lovely too.
>> David Price: You know what I mean?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Look, I do and I, I guess, of course I do, but I, I guess the real concern is do the listener slash viewer, reader fully, fully, get what’s going on. But I mean I, I suppose if you’ve got an oh, I mean the Internet. If you don’t have an eye for quality and you’re surfing the Internet, you’ve got a problem anyhow. So I mean you, you have, you know, you, I guess as someone who started with the Internet, when the Internet started, I guess you developed an eye for quality
and what was BS on the Internet pretty quickly. And of course everyone back in the day had a bit of technical knowledge so the whole thing with phishing emails and dodgy websites was kind of easier to sort of. Not that that’s what we’re talking about but you, you did develop a sort of a, a sixth sense or some kind of sense of, of what was BS and what wasn’t on the Internet. And, and I guess maybe that’s not so obvious to me. I just skim past it and of course, I mean 90 of what’s on the Internet is probably a lie, you know, across the board. And that’s not always intentional. my belief, right or wrong, is that a lot of people are just repeating lies from the Internet. So it’s like also.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Sorry, no.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Well, YouTube how to videos are the classic one where people just repeat someone else’s how to video where the other person showed you how to do something wrongly. And so there is a lot of, you know, an AI of course does a very nice job of repeating these lies back at you. And so it is a. I think the expression may be a circle jerk. I’m not sure why but there is this, this, there is this regenerating of, of B.S. which of course ah, people who produce new content terrible expression like ourselves obviously are trying desperately. Joy, we both got the experience to that We’ve learned the hard way in the real world to, to that we would love to offer to people because I guess we feel it’s the truth but, but in reality it’s much closer to the truth than a lot of other things that are being said out there I guess. Is that the summary? Perhaps? And speaking of a summary, we should take a quick break because I want to hit the save button and we’ll be back in just a second with just capping off that.
The hi Fi shop is the home of quality hi Fi experience
But also I want to ask you about some preferences you seem to have and your NS1001 is going to give away where I’m heading. back in a minute folks. The hi Fi shop is the home of quality hi Fi experience. The best of everything from affordable turntables to not so affordable high end loudspeakers. Let Alex curate a complete system for you or have him using his technical background assist with your next upgrade. Visit in person or check the website hifi shop.com au for easy information on all of your favorite brands. Go straight to the top. Speak to Alex at hi fi shop. And we’re back with David Price, after that short break.
David is the global editor in chief of stereonet. com
David these days having commanded a number of well known, highly regarded English hi fi magazines, is now moved to the Internet and is in charge as the global editor in chief of stereonet. which stereonet. I’m sure many listeners know what the hell a stereonet is. it’s news, reviews and of course a forum. David, tell us all about it.
>> David Price: Yeah, so stereonet at was started quite a long time ago by Mark Rushton, in Melbourne. and you know he’s built it from nothing up to a very large kind of international global you could say now entity. and I think we’re, we were getting a vast number of clicks on the old clickometer.
>> Andrew Hutchison: A vast number, yes.
>> David Price: Well you know, it’s I think 4 million plus per month, now, something like that. So. And it’s a sobering thought because when I started in hi fi journalism in about 1995, then I was, I was writing for hi fi world which had 16,000 UK newsstand sales, every month thousand magazines sold. So yeah, it’s quite a lot bigger than hi Fi World was back in those days. And it’s very exciting because you know obviously hi Fi is global. yeah. And there are kind of emerging markets for it and they’ve all got their different tastes and characteristics and kind of quirks. so it’s fascinating to see that for example staring at Asia is based in Singapore, you know, has ah, certain kind of brands and types of hi fi are very much popular there, whereas they’re not so much in Europe. And obviously the UK market is a very well say the most mature market in the world. the first ever hi fi magazine as we know it was hi fi News, which I think was 1959.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. That far back.
>> David Price: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Things have come a long way. so yeah, it’s, it’s a, it’s a very different world that we’re now in in 2025 compared to 1995 when I kind of joined the industry and I started reading hi fi magazines for my sins, in, in the mid-70s when I was about 10, which you know, was probably very.
>> Andrew Hutchison: You were an early starter.
>> David Price: I was an early starter. I got my first car magazine, I think Auto Car when I was nine. and, you know, my first motorbike magazine when I was 11. So, I had a. My. My lovely, sort, of grandmother. Basically. She. She noticed from her that I took interest in reading from an early age and, you know, Buy me m. A magazine.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s. It’s funny you should say that.
You seem to have enough money to buy as many magazines as you need
And I actually want to come back to what we were finishing off on before the break where we were talking about a little. We were touching on the wild west and then. And I was rabbiting on about, you know, having a bit of a radar for. For bollocks on the Internet. But, Yeah, but, just a quick piece of trivia. as a teenager and like yourself, you know, reading Bike Car and hi Fi magazines. The definition of wealth for me was one where I could afford to buy any magazine that I chose because it’s. The reality was they weren’t actually that cheap. And because there were so many good ones. Plus clearly we had multiple interests you needed to buy. I mean, I think I was. I worked out once I was buying eight magazines a month.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Which I’m gonna say, I suppose it wasn’t that much money, but I mean, in today’s money, I mean, that would be, I suppose it’s not. No, it’s not really that much. I think I was just poor. All right, moving right along. But anyhow, anyhow, the point is that at some point I, seem to have enough money to buy as many magazines as I need. Ah, needed. And, And I’ve still got some of them. Ah, I’ve got a stacks up on the mezzanine. Two piles. Two decades of, of car magazine, which, And I had. I had all of the supercar classics, but sold, them on to a collector. Because if my partner had said that if I continue to keep these magazines piled up that she, will I think, either force me to leave or leave me, one or the other. But, I. So I pretended that I’d sold the lot when I sold the supercar classics for money. Car not worth so much. But, if I ever have time, I’d like to read through them again. Going sideways.
We were talking about how things have changed since the 70s
We were talking about how things have changed. And in a minute I want to talk about how things haven’t changed. Because when you were reading those magazines in the 70s, you were. I Mean you would be listening to records to listen to music. And then we went through all these other formats that. Which seem to have been forgotten about and we’re back at records again, so we’ll do that in a second. But before, before that. Yeah, what did you want to finish off on in regards to?
>> David Price: I mean, we were just talking about, we’re just talking about the Wild West.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
It’s easier to do a review now than it used to be
>> David Price: and so I think, the, the, the, the issue is now is that obviously manufacturers have got their kind of media facing side, very generally very well developed now. and they, you know, they’ll, let’s say they’re launching a new speaker at, let’s say, just for the sake of argument, care for anybody really, you know, they’ll have well written press releases, and you know, good kind of, sort of photo libraries and so on.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes, indeed.
>> David Price: Anyone who’s an influencer or a journalist or any random person almost practically can get access to those if they, if they really want to. so you, you tend to get a lot of what I call kind of reheated press releases appearing as reviews.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes. So always review as reviews, you’re saying. So they’ll take a press release and wobble that into a review.
>> David Price: Okay, absolutely, yeah. I mean having seen, you know, I seen most press releases and you can then read reviews from various people. I’m not saying from the, from the major, you know, titles, the major magazines, the major, sort of, influences. But you know, you can basically be some bloke who wants to blag a pair of headphones or a new pair of speakers. And you know, there is a route into getting the press release and then, you know, rewriting that and just adding a few comments and calling it a review. That’s what I’m saying.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: Okay, so it’s, it. So basically it’s easier to do a review now than it used to be. In the old days. When I started in, in the 90s, you had to phone the manufacturer up and say, hello, you know, can I, can I have this to review? And then can I, you know, can you tell me all about it and I’ll speak to you, to the designer and I’ll do this. It was quite a long process. And now you’ve kind of almost got a kind of fast food environment where you can instantly get the press release, download it, you know, get the images and then, you know, give your opinion, as it were. yeah, so it makes, it makes it, you know, it’s greater access in some ways. That’s a good thing because you’ve got more diversity of opinion. Possibly, but in other ways it’s an. It’s a way to do reviews without doing your proper homework. That’s what I’m saying.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Indeed. the value, the value of the opinion is of course, quite low. It’s, you know.
>>
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, it’s.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well, in those circumstances.
>> David Price: Yeah, absolutely. So my point is, is that, you know, people who are doing it properly, as we do at, stereonet and, and as the, the established print magazines do, you know, we have to underline to, readers that we are doing it properly. You know, we’re doing our due diligence, we’re doing our homework, we’re talking to the manufacturers, the designers and all the rest of it. And we have a lot of experience and a kind of collective knowledge base in our magazine or our online, you know, publication or whatever. you know, and it’s an important differentiating factor. and that is, I think, something that people, you know, need to know. So an awful lot of work goes into, into a proper review and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s. That’s why, you know, we strive so hard to do it. Right. That’s really my point.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah. No, wholeheartedly agree. And in fact, the amount of work in a review is completely out of proportion for what you get, get what you get paid for. It’s a bloody hard way to make money if you do it properly. And Yeah, you know, there’s you, there’s, there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of sitting around listening and. There’s a lot of sitting around listening, thinking about what you’re going to write and, and a lot of sitting around thinking about listening or listening and thinking about it and trying to get some motivation to write something, because it’s.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. You know, I mean, writing is hard work. Right.
>> David Price: Yeah. Yeah. And trying different stuff. Yes, yep. Trying to.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: Get the best out of it. And Yeah, and not to mention just lugging the gear around. I mean, it’s taking photos. There’s, there’s, there’s a, there’s an inordinate amount of work in reviewing and So, Yeah, I, I guess, like a lot of things in audio, it’s, it’s done to some degree for the love of it, you know, by those that are in the business. It’s, it’s not a, it’s not a particularly great industry to, to make great, you know, boxes of Easy to carry around cash, out of. So.
>> David Price: Well, yeah, I agree. And you know, I think that that is, that’s very true. But at the same time I don’t want to get too self indulgent, you know, because people actually do go down coal mines for a little for a living. You know, this is you know, fit satellites to the top of 50 story buildings and stuff. So, you know, I don’t think hi Fi reviewers are quite that downtrodden. They’re not.
>> Andrew Hutchison: No, no, no. In fact it’s, it’s not so much when I say for the love of it, it’s for the love of the fact that it’s the easy life in a way. I mean you, you have a nicely warmed or cooled room, a comfy chair and a very nice stereo and of course a range of drinks to to partake in as you
>> David Price: Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: As you flick through your collection. Yes. Speaking of,
>> David Price: Someone’s got to do it.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Someone’s got to do it.
How did we end up where we are now with streaming music
Hey, it occurs to me, and you’re in a great position to report back on this. How the hell did we end up where we are now? How. How was it that in the 80s as a teenager I utterly hated records. I. I lived in a house with a timber floor. I couldn’t. I wanted to play the music loud. I wanted lots of bottom end. I had some of the aforementioned KEFs with the B139.
>> David Price: Yep.
>> Andrew Hutchison: transmission line. So a big pair of boxes and I wanted to play it loud and big. And my turntable didn’t allow me, allow me to do that. Although I did make some very nice dubs onto very high quality tape machines of various kinds. including the ones with the quarter inch tape rather than the eighth. And and and of course really some open reel machines almost sound better than the record. But the point is we got rid of horrible records. I say that to some degree in jest. yeah. And. And got. Got something that you could, you could have on a vibrating floor. And and. And not. It would generally not mistrack and it would it sounded a bit tighter and cleaner I guess. And and then we. And then we of course, and I made the bold prediction about in the late 90s that one day music would just be something that was on this store. This, this non moving storage medium. I imagine some kind of ram that was not ram and just was a stick. And of course that happened. Yeah, I’m recording onto one right now. And yet, and yet the industry has Gone through all of that and of course streaming, which is even more science fiction than really you know, some kind of, you know, flash drive type memory, any music you, that’s almost ever been made is available to us and yet we’re not happy with that. We want records back and not only do we want records back but we want speakers with wide baffles, we want amplifiers with valves in them, tubes, vacuum tubes, what have you. What how did this all happen do you think? I mean is it, is it did it did some of it. I mean some people would say it never, I mean Mark Doman as an example and possibly yourself would say records never really went away. But for me they absolutely almost completely did. And because in retail people didn’t want to buy them anymore so we sort of, you know, lost interest.
>> David Price: Yeah, well, I mean obviously if you think about the mass market, I mean, you know, the 1970s, most people’s experience of hi fi and you know the hi fi boom really started in the UK I’m sure in the same in Australia in the 70s. Yeah, I think so as, as it you know, I mean obviously hi fi is a hobby and as a kind of pursuit has, has existed for, for a very long time. And you know even before the you know, appearance of the micro groove record in 1948 there were people into their sound systems, weren’t there? But yeah, it really, it really hit the mainstream in the early 70s with solid state amplifiers and you know basically things being much more affordable than they, than they had previously been. And in the 70s most people’s experience of music listening was done on a music center. and music centers were pretty iffy. I mean there were some great ones that came out from certain manufacturers, you know, high end ones, with direct drive turntables and you know, decent cassette decks and decent tuners and so on. But you know most of them were pretty ropey. and you know the most people’s ability to take care of records is not great. And yeah, as you know, you know you have to have a certain kind of discipline with records in order to keep, to get them to work and not to be damaged. You have to have a decent stylus, you have to have a decent, you know, a tone arm that tracks at a sensible low, sort of tracking force, etc. so for most people then LPs weren’t the ideal format and obviously CD made a huge contribution to you could say sort of democratizing high Quality hi fi or high quality music reproduction. because you could put a CD in a CD player and it would sound pretty good, just from the, from the off, wouldn’t it? And you didn’t keep having to,
>> Andrew Hutchison: You didn’t have to keep cleaning the laser.
>> David Price: Yes, yeah, you didn’t have to keep cleaning the laser with a, with a toothbrush or whatever. So, you know, so as a mass music carrier, CD was immensely significant and it powered the hi Fi industry, all the way through the 80s and 90s. And even though the, you know, you talk to the old guys in hi Fi, they’d say, well, the 70s was when it all took off. But the, basically the CD coming out in 82, 83 gave it a massive caffeine shot for at least another 15 years. you know, and then obviously we began to get into files and file Downloads and obviously MP3s and so on. And you know, we’ve watched the industry change dramatically and now people, understandably want streaming because it’s an amazing resource. And again, you get a decent sound. maybe not the best sound, but, you know, it’s a, it’s an amazing driver for music. And I was very involved with reviewing all the very early streaming stuff. I did the very first LIN streamer, I think was. Ivan phoned me up and said, you know, David, we’re junking our CD players. Do you want to review this new thing called a streamer that we’ve got? and I remember it took, this was like 2004 or something.
>> Andrew Hutchison: I remember it well. It was like, he’s a very brave man.
>> David Price: Well, that absolutely was. And you know, you, whatever you might think of Iver, and he’s a controversial guy. he’s been able to read the runes, as it were, of where hi Fi is going. And you know, and it took about five days to get that first Lynn streamer going with a computer and a visit from a guy to fly down from Glasgow. Is that right?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
>> David Price: To set it up in the end because I couldn’t do it myself.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: you know, it just shows you how far we’ve come. And now obviously, you know, Lynn, streaming stuff is just amazing. And it just goes instantly and it’s. But that’s through evolution.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Indeed.
>> David Price: and, and now you can get kind of decent half decent streamers for 500 bucks or whatever, can’t you? 600 bucks. You know, the very entry level stuff.
>> Andrew Hutchison: But yeah, they, they all, they all kind of work. I Mean they certainly. The better ones. it surprises me, this is a bit of trivia or off to one side, but it surprises me. How much. Well, unless I’m imagining it and I don’t believe I am, how much better the the better ones sound. But they don’t come with cheap price tags such as the LINN and the other ones that we all know that are very good. But yeah, the affordable ones are, you
know, well, they’re as reliable as an inexpensive CD player and that could, that sounds. Maybe that’s the wrong thing. I mean most CD players but track a $500 CD player tracks as well as a $50,000 CD player, maybe better actually. and I would say that the cheaper streamers certainly perform flawlessly. Unlike the obviously the early LIN that you mentioned which was hard to set up and I don’t know if it was flaky, it probably was perfect once it worked.
You’ve always reviewed using vinyl, but you also use CD and stream
But the point is. Yeah, yeah, we’ve come a long way and yet there’s this strong. Yeah, there’s almost a, you’re not a search audio enthusiast unless you’ve got a turntable sort of thing going on out there. And and in audio circles, I mean certainly reviewing or perhaps going to a show and not having a turntable is seen as you’re not really you’re not really hip to the groove man, sort of. but I get the, I get the impression that you never walked away from records.
>> David Price: You. no, I, I never did that. And I was, I always, I’ve always reviewed using vinyl. but I’ve, I’ve, you know, also use CD and stream as well these days. But you know I, because I just. In the 90s, I just thought, well, I’ve not heard a CD player that sounds as good as my turntable and so why should I downgrade my system in order to, you know, use digital? Basically.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: And even today I think that the very best turntables with you know, excellent tone arms and the very best cartridges are way better than any high res streamer. and that’s saying an awful lot because you know, sort of modern streaming can be at the high end, absolutely stunningly good, you know, indeed, the lens, DCS and so on, whatever. you know, basically you can get very high quality out of streaming now. Extremely high quality. But turntables still do if they’re set up properly. you know, and you’re playing again, you’re playing original, LPs, not the remastered ones which have invariably gone through large amounts of digital processing these days before the vinyl gets turned, churned out.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: you know it can sound amazing. I mean a sort of first generation pressing of Harvest by Neil Young never went anywhere near any digital. and even in the in the mastering, it didn’t go through digital delay loops or anything like that for the for the mastering, process of the cutting, the
>> Andrew Hutchison: You know, so, so it’s a proper analog recording. It is an. It is actually.
>> David Price: Yes, yes, it’s pure analog and, and it sounds staggeringly good.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: You know, on a decent turntable with a, with a nice cartridge, you know, like a Lyra or something like that. It just sounds amazing even now. and it’s even more amazing to think that that would be 51 years old that, you know, that harvest, LP. so we were able to get fantastic sound quality even in the, even in the, in the 70s and late 60s. And you know, even you, you listen to some of the jazz records, the original Blue Notes for example, from early 60s, late 50s done recorded with very simple kind of cross pair cardioid microphones live. And they’re just amazing. They’re staggering. You know, Miles Davis kind of blue.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh yeah.
>> David Price: it’s an amazing recording. and you know, it didn’t need any processing and any messing around. You just.
>> Andrew Hutchison: No, no, put it on.
>> David Price: It sounds incredible. In fact.
>> Andrew Hutchison: In fact it’s Yeah, I feel, I had a hell of a collection of records that I’d bought, you know, largely new and they were in great shape and I fearlessly sold them and I guess a lot of people did and I just I really obviously regret it because. But I started and I stupidly started buying them back again and. Which is the problem is that that they they’re never as good because they’re not. Because not anyone is going to look after records as well as the silly, enthusiast who either plays it very carefully on a very good turntable or plays it only once to record it. Do you, you
David has a particular fondness for Japanese equipment
So speaking of records and your love of them and equipment in general, it seems that you have a sort of a, not an exaggerated fondness but a. Ah, ah. Certainly, more than a soft spot for for Japanese equipment. Is that, Across the board?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. I mean, How can I put this? So, the, the environment.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Not a bad thing by the way. It’s just that you’re you know, you grew up in that Linn Naim society and you know, absolutely.
>> David Price: So in, in the uk, I, I can’t speak for Australia obviously, But in the UK if you bought a hi Fi magazine in 1980, then pretty much every hi Fi magazine around then the reviewers will be using Lin and name stuff. And I’ve got nothing against Lynn name stuff. I’ve had a lot of it myself. It’s fantastic. It’s great.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: but the problem with a lot of the reviewers of that time, was that they simply didn’t look any further than Lynn Name and associated brands, you know, for inspiration. And at that particular time in the late 70s 70s I’d say from about 78 onwards, Japan absolutely got on it and they got there, you know, all the big companies in Japan which were massive in consumer electronics. International global concerns with huge research budgets, massive engineering resources, you know they, they suddenly decided to start doing high end. And yeah, you know, if you’ve got 50 engineers working on a drive system for a direct drive turntable and you know, and the sort of base and the partnering electronics and the machining for the top plates and all the rest of it, you know, you frankly, you know, it’s a more sophisticated approach than buying a Phillips motor, and sticking a rubber belt around a sub platter, you know. so yes, indeed. Not saying that belt drives don’t sound good or can’t sound good, they obviously can. But at the same time I’m just saying that the Japanese threw huge research and development money into getting exceptionally good results in some cases. And you look at turntables like the Kenwood L07D and you know, for example the Yamaha NS1000M and you know they, they weren’t, they didn’t just buy bits off the shelf. They kind of went back to first principles and, and kind of invented, I mean ns thousands have got beryllium drive units. You know, beryllium is the that’s things that. Hydrogen, hydrogen, helium, lithium, beryllium, Beryllium is the fourth lightest element in the periodic table. and it’s the second lightest metal. Lithium is unstable in air. It’ll catch fire. So we can’t use that. Beryllium is the lightest metal you can use.
>> Andrew Hutchison: That won’t catch fire.
>> David Price: That won’t catch fire. you know, in, in air. and so that’s tremendously advanced technology. You know, when in the UK they were doing Beck Stream, which is basically kind of, you know, the kind of thing that, that plastic water bottles Use. You know, I mean, I’m exaggerating, but.
>> Andrew Hutchison: The point is it is a There was. It was a great time. I mean, I guess the problem is that it was a great. It was a great time for. I mean as a technical person, Japanese engineering unsurpassed. Absolutely. Probably full stop anyhow, in any. In any industry really that they tended to try a little bit. But yes, they put their energies into hi fi. for a while. For a. For a few decades. And wow. You know, like the quality it was at a time, I always feel, David, when the Japanese, designers and engineers were as much concerned, if not more so with the longevity of something. They wanted it to seemingly last forever. And it mostly did, you know that it not only did it perform well and was it beautifully made, it just was made out of materials and in a way that it would just keep on going. And And look, lots of the German and English stuff still does as well and in many cases more because of its simplicity, than. Than other things. But yeah, it was a great time. And But the. But the propaganda ran deep and I grew up on direct, drive turntables are no good. They never play at the right speed. They’re constantly searching for the right speed and sort of utter rot like that really. And Yeah, and you. You soaking an environment of belt drive turntables and suspension suspended turntables. You. Except for Riga of course. You, you. You broke through that and you, you obviously, you obviously had a fondness for the. I guess from the sound of it, it was the quality of the engineering as much as the sound quality that that interested you.
>> David Price: Well, I had a. I had a Linl P12 which I loved. but I found that it was never quite as good on. On techno. And Yeah, we’ve got the sound of a synthetic synthesized bass note that you get from a, you know, a TB303 bass, bass line, you know, generator that were used in all of these kind of early 80s, you know, kind of pop, techno pop, kind of classics. You, you’d hit like Depeche Mode, right? Yes, early, early Depeche Mode. so the. An electronic synthesized bass note would simply sound softer and more blobby as it were m through a belt drive than through a direct drive. And I picked up on that really quickly. and. And then I kind of went off on this sort of voyage of discovery and think. Trying to figure out why. and I just think that the speed stability of a good direct drive, ah, is better than is possible from a belt drive. because belt drives are basically have a kind of slipper clutch through via the belt. It’s you know, very You know you’ve got the drive and you’ve got the platter and it’s connected by a belt. And that is not ideal but as ever it’s not what you do, it’s
how you do it. So you’ve got for example the Roxanne Xerxes with a very stiff short belt, you know, which, which gives a theoretically better you know, sort of connection between the drive and the, the inner platter, than possibly arguably one with a very long soft belt. So you know, it’s all, it’s all down to the implementation. And I’m not, I’m not sort of just blanketly saying that all bell drives are rubbish, they fantastic sounding belt drive turntables, but basically the better a belt drive turntable gets, the closer it gets to a direct drive.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay.
The better direct drive turntable gets, the closer it gets to a belt drive
>> David Price: And also the better direct drive turntable gets, the closer it gets to a belt drive in some ways. So. Well, you know. Yes, you do get with the cheap belt direct drives, the you know, the slight kind of not. It just sounds slightly processed, as the quartz direct drive servo kind of keeps, you know, correcting the right seat. So you know, you get the kind of cogging, as people would say.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well that’s, that’s propaganda said. But of course once you get to the kind of serious direct drives then I guess, and by serious I mean really the early Technics, any of those, the, the good ones were in the SL 1200 ultimately of course were Plenty good enough, I would say.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes, well, the SP10 Mark II basically.
>> Andrew Hutchison: That’S what I’m thinking of. What a machine really.
>> David Price: Yeah, the SB10 Mark II was the first professional quartz drive, Quartz locked direct drive and that, that pretty much solved cogging, you know. and you know, even the SL 1200 Mark II which was I think 78. It’s not really, you can’t, it’s not really there at all this far. You know, it’s got a wonderfully solid sound and that’s why it’s such a great sort of DJ deck, along with being really robust and you know all the other benefits it had. But I mean, I think the thing with hi Fi with everything, you know we can, we can get really geeky and get into sort of you know, drive unit design and speakers and Drive design in turntables. And we can get unique pivot versus, you know, conventional. It goes into kind of air bearings, tone arms, etc. You get all of these kind of debates in audio file in the audiophile world. And ultimately it’s how it’s done. You know, it’s, it’s. You can’t just say, I’ve got an, you know, air bearing, turn, air bearing turnarm. It’s obviously better than your SME5. It’s how it’s done.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: You know, so ultimately it’s all down to the listening, isn’t it? And using your ears, I think.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, absolutely it is. And And yeah, it’s like you said earlier, it’s. It’s how you come at it. And And there’s many different ways you could do a belt drive turntable. and they’ve all been had a go at. And they’re all. Some are clearly, better than others. That early technics of the SB10. there is one caveat with how great that turntable is, versus a belt drive. And your Phillips motor idea is that literally a belt drive turntable can be a motor. So some pieces of wire connecting it to the wall and of course a platter, and a bearing and a belt. The SB10, on the other hand, I think has about four circuit boards chock full of dodgy, 70s, sort of, early, ICs and stuff, which, yes, manage, have managed, due to the aforementioned quality of Japanese engineering to keep going even today. Yeah. And, And having had the, luck, I guess, of repairing one recently, I, I was, you know, just captivated really, and just how well it worked. I mean, it was just, just. It’s just a delightful machine and clearly so far ahead of its time.
There was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot it
now, there was something else I wanted to ask and I’ve bloody well forgotten what it is now. so we’ll just talk about motorbikes for a while. but now the, No, I really. It was a. Was a good subject too, but I didn’t write it down.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So,
>> Andrew Hutchison: So it’s therefore gone.
Getting a great system takes time and effort. Yeah, well, I mean, you know
but I’m sure you’ve got something else you would like to mention. I’ve known no idea what it is.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, I mean, I would just say.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, I know what. I know what the question was now. Sorry.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, okay.
>> Andrew Hutchison: but no, but just finish that thought and I’ll, I will remember this time.
>> David Price: Yeah, well, I mean, you know, so I think when you’re trying to get a good system and get a good result, a good end result. you know, it is, it is kind of like cooking. So you have to have good ingredients and you have to mix them in the right way. So, if you have cheap ingredients and you mix them in a very clever way, you can get better results than you’d kind of expect. But it’s still not ideal. But if you have very good ingredients and you mix them in the right way, it’s going to be fantastic.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: Also, if you have very good ingredients and you don’t mix them the right way, you put far too much chili powder in or whatever, or chilies or whatever, or, you know, then it’s just going to all go wrong. So I think that we have to look at, I mean, going back to what I was saying earlier, you know, you need to know what your music taste is, focus on that. Find the right pair of speakers for you.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: And, and then work from that. And the next thing, and it’s not very well, it’s not always commented on, is the relationship between the loudspeaker and the amplifier. So you have to have an amplifier that is absolutely comfortable driving the speakers that you’ve chosen for yourself.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: and you know, so that means that you’ve got to look at the load, low impedance driving ability if the speakers are difficult loads. And you’ve also got to look at the. How, you know, some amplifiers tend to sound much better when they’re kind of fully cranked up and not quite so good when they’re low down, lower volumes. But you can get amplifiers like the Sugden A21 or something, which produce a few watts and it’s just magical, even at low volumes, you know. Whereas Rotel Michis, for example, really seem to do better cranking, you need to crank them up. And it’s, it’s kind of like going back to bikes. You know, some engines, you know, they, they get going over 10,000 rpm, don’t they? And there’s nothing there. So it’s all down to the kind of individual experience of the product and how it works with your speakers. And so I’m just saying what you, you fixate on your speakers, then you, you get a good, good amp that drives them, whether it’s tube or transistor. and then you, from then on, you then look to get the best source you can, I think. and when you’ve got all of those right, you’ve got a great sounding system and Then obviously you can use cables to tune them ever better. And you know, I think isolating everything from vibration is hugely important as well. It’s not, not, not really spoken about enough. The main supply is a real issue as well. When you’ve got a high end system, not so much, a budget one, you know, mains, purification and so on. so you know, you, it’s like a kind of jigsaw puzzle that everything’s got a slot together. Indeed. So getting a great system, I.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Was gonna say, yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s something, yeah, it takes a while. And I think that you. Two other things I’ll add only is that I think you know, that go, you know, find your own path. You know, whatever works for you is right for you. And the other thing is do something with your room acoustics. You know, it’s can’t be forgotten. Although your brain has an absolutely amazing ability to tune them out. But nonetheless, you, once you’ve got that system right, if you then start working on the room acoustics, you, you will be, you’ll elevate it to another level. I don’t think you can make a system sound wrong by improving the acoustics. But unless the acoustics were really.
>> David Price: Bad, maybe the relationship between the speakers and the room is a massively important one and you know, we forget that and you know, it’s a real issue and then you know, you’ve got things like infinite baffle loudspeakers which tend to be much more room friendly than bass, ported speakers, reflex ported speakers and so on. so there’s this massive kind of three dimensional mix really, isn’t it? It’s like 3D chat, I think.
>> David Price: I think that’s the attraction. I mean it’s like all hobbies, I suppose that there’s, there’s a certain amount of intrigue and there’s a hunt and you’re, you’re in, you’re, you’re on a quest.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Hey, indeed.
Personalities in the hi fi industry are fascinating stories
>> Andrew Hutchison: Personalities in the hi fi industry. I feel like there’s some strong ones. you, you’ve, you’ve probably as far as at least UK manufacturers, probably met all of them. I’m not asking you to award a score to the most interesting personality, but you may. have you got any stories to tell that you, that you can tell that you know, that you’re allowed?
>> David Price: Well, that’s two separate questions.
>> Andrew Hutchison: So, the great thing is no one’s listening.
>> David Price: So, No. Okay.
>> Andrew Hutchison: That old joke.
>> David Price: So how many people listen to this podcast? Is it two? Or was it two or three?
>> Andrew Hutchison: Well, there’s me and a few mates. So basically the people that produce it now, there is actually thousands upon thousands. So you need to tread carefully. But look, you know, fire away. There must be, there must be something
that can be made public that’s entertaining.
>> David Price: so, Yes, well look, I mean obviously I’m you know, fully aware of legal implications here.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: I mean I would just say that on a more, on a, on a broader point, let me. I won’t give you specific anecdotes, but, but I will talk about characters in hi Fi and I mean I, you know, obviously I know we can’t go on forever but so I’ll just, I’ll mention a few. But and you know ah, Iver Tiefen Brun, was hugely influential in the UK hyphen industry and still is. Although he’s obviously much quieter now. more having a more behind the scenes role at ah, Lyn. but he was. Whether you love or hate the LP12, whether you love or hate vinyl, he was an amazing advocate. Advocate for for it. And you know the LP12 is a great turntable and you know, regardless of the fact that it’s got a belt drive and, and I’m, you know, I’m a bit more of a director, I find that’s irrelevant because the end result of a well set up LP12 is a very nice sounding vinyl front end and you know, you’ve got to get it set up right, you know, you know, put a bit of effort into that or get your diva to But Ivor was a great advocate. He was like a powerhouse in the 70s and 80s for hi fi in general. Specialist hi fi in general, I’d say. and amazingly good communicator and very charismatic guy. So Roy Gandy from Rega obviously is another example. He’s I would say a more shy and retiring type but, but still, you know, he’s almost like a kind of Buddhist version of Ivor is sort of. It’s much more introspective and kind of, you know, my mindful and less prone to loud comments. But you know, his value for money philosophy with Rega of course and still is amazing and you know there’s no doubting the you know, huge positive effect he’s had. I knew John Michell as well, he was a lovely bloke and he was absolutely the antithesis of Ivor he was just this sort of hobbyist engineer who couldn’t really say very much. he wasn’t very erudite. you know, kind of. I mean you could see Ivor in politics, but you couldn’t see John Michell in politics. He was fixated on the nuances of this or that pulley or spindle or weight or, you know, and. And designed this great bearing for the gyro deck. and you know, a, ah, sort of great kind of engineer kind of guy. and he was, he was, you know, very impressive in his way. obviously Julian Vereker was an absolute fire brand. And yeah, you know.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes, stories abound.
>> David Price: When he went into the room, the atmosphere changed, you know, immediately. It was incredible. And, and I, I experienced these guys at a relatively early age. I was in my 30s, I guess, or very early 30s or late 20s even, when I first met them. And you know, you’re so attuned to the vibe of the, you know, the person at that time. And so, yeah, fantastic.
Ken Ishiwata played a key role in the evolution of hi fi
And another one, I actually became very quite good personal friends with was Ken Ishiwata, who was a, ah, fascinating character. Obviously he was Japanese, but he was almost like a kind of, He was almost like a kind of, Ah, he’s like. He’d kind of escaped from Japan and was allowed to become himself living in Europe. Yeah, you know, Ken wasn’t a very corporate guy in Japan. The, you know, if you’re in a company in Japan, it’s all about the whole. It’s all about the company. It’s not about you.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: and, and you know, there’s a sort of phrase that the nail that sticks out must be hammered down. And yeah, you know, that didn’t really work with Ken. He was a very. He’s a very, great character, but he wasn’t kind of loud and shouty. He was just very opinionated on, on things. And, and it came from his own experience, so he once told me. Had a database of practically every component you could buy in Akihabara, you know, every different type of Japanese capacitor. And he’d listen to every single one and substitute every single one into his amplifiers and heard the difference, you know, okay, wow, Nichicon or ah, you know, Elna or whatever. Capacitor. He knew how they sounded. And you know, at that time, in the early 90s when I first met him, that was a crazy thing to say. You know, in the uk, if you could say that Capacitors sounded different. Yeah, you know, people just like, what are you, are you on? What drugs are you on? Yeah, yeah. so you know, all of these people I’ve known and many more, but the ones I mentioned specifically, just off the top of my head, played a part, you know, a sort of real part in the evolution of hi fi.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: And now, you know, we have a much more enlightened world. I’d say it’s more, there’s much more room for. In a sense it’s more tolerant. So if you said you like valid valve amps in the 1980s, you were you know, carted off to the local lunatic. you know, it was incredibly controversial thing to say. Now, oh, you’ve got a valve and that’s cool. I, I’ve got a solid state, class A or whatever. That’s cool. You know, so we have a more holistic and sort of more kind of tolerant world I think. And you know, I would say, yeah, they used to be a massive of digital versus analog thing going on as well, you know, in the 80s. And that’s kind of calmed down a bit now and people kind of respect you. If you like vinyl or if you like CD or if you like streaming or high res, it’s all got its place. So. So that’s good, I think.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, I think it has actually. You’re right. I hadn’t thought about it much. But yeah, look, I know I would say myself, I’d probably you know, probably, I don’t know, late 90s or 2000s early, it might have, I wouldn’t say rubbished records but like, you know, what do we need them? We’ve got this, we’ve got that. You know, it’s And I think that’s, that’s ignorance to some degree because if you, if you’re only selling turntables under, you know, 1500 bucks, then yeah, then they don’t all sound amazing. And yeah, but like, like you said earlier, really we’ve had magnificent sounds since the season 70s. The records, the recordings have been great, the turntables have been great. Probably the loudspeakers may have let the side down a little bit. And
>> David Price: Well, there were some good ones, you know, I mean the quad, electrostatic and it’s ilk, were great in their way. so yeah, but it’s a much more kind of diverse environment now and you know, through Stereonet, you know we always try and be as agnostic as we can about Something just taken on on its own terms rather than try and get dragged into which. Which is better by default, you know. And, and the same with hi Fi Riff. You know, my sort of YouTube channel, you know, we, we try and review things on in the context of what they are and what they’re meant to do rather than you know, and also who they’re for rather than you know, than sort of trying to start some kind of I hate your side and your hate your side hates mine kind of thing.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, indeed.
>> David Price: yeah. And that was a weird. That was the thing I tried to do with hi fi world. We had a very big valve constituency of readers. We had a very big name loving constituency of readers and we managed to cater to both sides and not give the other side, you know, the hump as it were. you know, each to their own. I think is the. Is the Is. Is my message I think.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. And I, and I, I wholeheartedly agree and I think I think we’ve covered it.
Less, less outrageous personalities in hi Fi industry do you think
but I, I would say one thing is that speaking of personalities, it probably isn’t. It feels like. And this. Is this an age related thing or is it the way it is now that if things are more diverse as far as you know, we can be a valve loving audio person or a or solid state and we can get on. But But Less, less outrageous personalities in the the hi Fi industry do you think than back in the day perhaps? Is that because people tone it down or because I mean people still have personalities? Right.
>> David Price: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think, I think the, the I think there’s a generation of people who certainly in the uk sort of came through with very big characters and you know, and kind of succeeded through sheer weight, force of personality as much as anything else.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
>> David Price: and most of those people have, have left the industry now, retired or even passed away. You know there are some people, I mean in the UK we have Ricardo from Absolute Sounds, who is an absolute you know, sort of. You know he almost has his own gravity field around him. He’s I mean he was hugely important in the UK because we had that sort of Lynn name thing in the 80s and 70s. and Ricardo was like the sort of insurgency. You know, he was kind of promoting valve amps and so on.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
>> David Price: at a time that it was very unfashionable. and he was you know is a massive character now and still is a Massive character. and you know, so we have a few. But generally the Next Generation as it were, have tended to be a lot less combative, a lot less characterful. Possibly better at business even. I don’t know.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, I think definitely better at business.
>> David Price: Possibly.
>> David Price: Well yeah, but yeah. And perhaps most of the changes. What are you going to do? I mean it’s you know and there’s, there’s a certain amount of nostalgia that plays into our, our memories of those times. I suppose it would be hilarious to be cast back by some amazing time machine and I think disappointment would ensure because I think you know one’s view of these things changes as one has more and more experiences and so.
>> David Price: Well,
I, I would just say, I would just say this. When I started out in the 90s, you know, people say oh, the characters, the real characters of hi Fi have gone. You know, Gilbert Briggs, you know from North Dale, Peter Walker from Quad, Raymond Cook, you know, they’re all gone now. The big guys are all gone. You know. And this this is at the time that you know kind of Ivor and Julian were still in. In full on, you know, in sort of turbo mode or whatever.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Yep.
>> David Price: so you know, I think it’s. There’s always a sort of sense of nostalgia for another time. But, but I do think now It is a lot more of a business focused thing and it’s less you know it is less kind of There’s less sort of flair and charisma I think in many m of these. Any situation.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Oh, I, I think so. I think, I think there is, I think that could be said about, I mean you know, the likes of you know, Lotus as an example. You know, it’s, it’s a very serious business these days. At least it feels like from the outside, you know. Whereas I think back in the day it was probably a pretty serious business when Colin was in charge as well. But Yeah, yeah, but not, not as, not as corporatized and as well organized and, and never made money I don’t think. And I, I hope it makes money now.
>> David Price: Yeah.
>> Andrew Hutchison: on that note, that car related note. Hey, thank you so much David for your time and your thoughts and input and your stories. It’s been highly entertaining and I just appreciate you making your time available. It’s great.
>> David Price: That’s absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.
>> Andrew Hutchison: Thank you folks for listening and of course you should follow us because it’ll enable you to find the next episode when it is released more easily. All right, talk to everybody soon. Thanks again, David. Bye Bye bye.