Not An Audiophile – The Podcast featuring Kiat Low the custodian of heritage, high end HiFi brand, Duntech. New model and a new future for Duntech.
Podcast transcripts below – Episode 050
TRANSCRIPT
S3 EP050 New sound from heritage high end HiFi brand Duntech
Andrew Hutchison: Did you have an outline of how you were going to proceed?
Kiat Low: I still want to design the speakers using what we call the prime directive.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: And which we still do. And which we did. And we still do. And that would have been one of our biggest impediment because a lot of drive units these days, are not very first order friendly.
Andrew Hutchison: Devore Fidelity, the show partner of not an Audiophile. The podcast Devore Fidelity has become one of the most acclaimed high end companies in the world. And having heard the loudspeakers many times, I know why. They’re all still handcrafted in Brooklyn, New York. We love how this iconic brand captures the excitement and breath of the sound. Nothing brings you closer to the music than Devore Fidelity. For a retailer near you, visit devore fidelity.com. And we are back. Not an Audiophile the podcast episode 55. 0half century of quality Audiophile or Not an audiophile Podcast Entertainment some say. today we speak to Kiat Lowe, a gentleman of the Australian hi fi industry, the custodian of the Duntech loudspeaker brand for a quarter of a century. He tells us, and he gives us the, the lowdown on how he got hold of the brand, why and where it’s gone, how he’s got it there, and the future.
Andrew Hutchison: Hey, today we’ve got Kiat Low
Andrew Hutchison: on the phone and if you’re wondering.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, firstly, Kiat, hello, how are you? Thanks for joining us.
Kiat Low: Hello, how are you? Nice, nice talking to you.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s a pleasure. I’ve wanted to interview you for a long time. You’re a busy man. I’m busy. We’ve finally gotten together. The story is kind of threefold. I’d want to talk to you about three key things today. One is, and just feel free to answer straight away, how did you end up with the famous, slightly infamous, famous Duntech brand? And when I say infamous, I’m really referring to a positive, which is the appearance on that TV program that kind
Kiat Low: of made the brand absolutely correct. Yeah, Mike, actually let me go back a little bit. We have known each other for goodness years and years and years.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: I don’t know if your listeners are aware of, but, our relationship originated from Orpheus Loudspeake.
Andrew Hutchison: Indeed. Yes.
Kiat Low: Even at that stage I was an audiophile already anyway. Well, I think I was an audio file. I must be an audiophile if I was interested in Orpheus. my business partner at the time was probably, as a lot of people probably know, Brad Sirhan. and at that stage I was already very interested in Dante loudspeakers. But Dante is expensive. You could never really afford it. And I just left it as it is. I enjoyed the sound of Dante and there would have been a reason why I couldn’t quite work out why that stage. But Dante always drew me the same way Orpheus drew me, in the, in terms of audio. And one day, many years later I, I met. Okay. At this stage, John Dunleavy had already left the organization.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: And it was run by his, the accountant, Jim. Jim, Jim, Jim Alexander.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: James Alexander. And he, he tried running an audio company. Imagine an accountant running.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, I mean there’s actually, there’s actually some pretty good modern day examples of how that’s gone. But in some, those m.
Kiat Low: Every, Every instances I have heard, as soon as I mentioned accountant running, we all sort of start laughing. I mean there are some really famous companies that that that were run by audio files and somehow got into issues and the accountant. Accountants ended up running them.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Anyway, back to Dante. Anyway, the company Dante was at that stage run by a company called by,
00:05:00
Kiat Low: by a person called James Alexander. Which is the company, which is accountant for. Let me see, Folding Pharmaceuticals.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay. Yeah.
Kiat Low: Folding Pharmaceuticals was actually the owner of Dantech.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: John Dunleavy was the founder and he had a very small share in Dante. Okay. But the person that actually funded it was Bill Scammel. Correct? Bill Scammel, the original, from the family company, Falling Fun, Folding Pharmaceuticals. And it Foldings is still running, but they they have gone in a different direction.
Andrew Hutchison: Anyway, what they got out of the loudspeaker manufacturing business and back into pharmaceuticals.
Kiat Low: Yeah, yeah, that’s right there. But I, I got the funny, I got a funny story about this when I, when I met up with James Alexander and I said to James that look, I knew that Dantech was available for sale.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: And he wanted some phenomenal amount of money.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: I mean, and when you say
Andrew Hutchison: phenomenal, you mean more than a million dollars?
Kiat Low: Oh, yes, yes, yes. it is not phenomenal. By the way. a million dollars is not phenomenal for Dante because. No, but you can get a pair of Princess. A pair of high end speakers. Right?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: and somebody is the one. Somebody says they want a million dollars and you can say million dollars. 10 pair of speakers.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, that, no, that’s right. But I’m, I, my. If the brand was trading.
Kiat Low: No, not necessarily, not necessarily. If the Brand has got. Is an iconic brand.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: It’s got pedigree, it has history and the potential is there.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, it had all of that. So. And I guess I was just wanting to draw a million dollars is not very much, but I wanted to draw a line because I guess some examples exist where it’s a famous brand, but it’s not trading anymore and the brand is sort of sitting on the shelf and becomes to some degree almost valueless. But that’s. Well, you keep telling us the story.
Kiat Low: People still paid a lot of money for that.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they can because they just want the brand.
Kiat Low: For example, like, like, some famous brands. Rogers.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Celestial. Right. And the Chinese do. Paid bucket load of money for it because the brand had history. It doesn’t take them very much to relaunch it. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: No, I said, well, well, that’s right. Starting a brand from scratch is a, is a.
Kiat Low: That is.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s incredibly difficult.
Kiat Low: It is incredibly, incredibly difficult. And it’s exactly like the, like, you know, thanks to John Dunleavy, when he, when he started, Dante. I mean, he was having a tough time.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: and. But when he’s, when, but when he was in. What TV show was in Quantum.
Andrew Hutchison: The TV show was Beyond. Beyond 2000.
Kiat Low: Beyond 2000. Right. I saw that. And after that show, the brand just accelerated.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, it was. I think everyone saw it because it was a different time and there was only so many shows to watch. I mean there was four channels in this country in the metropolitan areas. And, and that was, that was a popular show.
Kiat Low: Yeah. People, people overseas was. Have also seen it.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay.
Kiat Low: Right. So from this, that perspective, the brand, an iconic brand of history, pedigree is still worth a lot of money. Right? Huh? Okay, just think of it. A million dollars. 10 pairs, 10, 12 pair of speakers.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: What? You, you sell 1012 pair of speakers and you got your money back.
Andrew Hutchison: What? Well, that’s assuming the speakers cost nothing to make and that you sell them direct. But, it’s.
Kiat Low: That’s correct. Yeah, that’s correct. If you sell them direct. But if you don’t sell them direct. Right. If you go to the wholesale retail outlet. Yeah, but then your, your numbers are much, much higher. So it still adds up to be the same.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, that’s exactly right. Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s. That we’re going to a side subject, but that’s what balances out. I mean some, some people think I’m going to sell direct because, you know, I’ll get all the money, but. Yeah, you’ll sell very few pairs of loudspeakers versus putting it through retail channels.
Kiat Low: Yeah, absolutely. For each pair that you sell, you sort of make up, but you know, you can, I mean, you can argue till the cows come home. Which way is better? well, there’s no particular way.
00:10:00
Andrew Hutchison: No, no.
Kiat Low: it depends on your exposure and things like that. I have people that pay me umpteen amount of money because I’ve spoke to them and they’ve transferred the money over.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay, you mean to purchase a pair of speakers or to purchase.
Kiat Low: Your time to purchase a pair of. This is not today, but a while ago. Yeah, yeah. I want, I won’t say how much, but some ridiculous amount of money for two pairs of sovereign. Okay. And they’re not local. No, they’re like in London and in the U.S. okay.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, it’s a, it’s a, it’s rarefied air. It’s a funny thing how, I mean you deal very much in the, in the true high end and you deal directly with the consumers in many cases. Which is, which is, I mean, they’re interesting people, aren’t they? I mean they, I guess their appreciation of what they’ve got monetary wise is not.
Kiat Low: People have changed.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, people. Well, I’ve got more money.
Kiat Low: Yeah, they got more money, but they have a lot more distractions.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes, yes.
Kiat Low: Anyway, when I back to the original, when I saw Alexander, right. He wants some ridiculous amount of money at that stage for, in, in my perspective, a 40 year old design. A bunch of 40 year old designs, indeed.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: And on hindsight, what the. And I said a large amount of miss Because I didn’t have the money, I didn’t have a million dollars 25 years ago to, to just hand it over.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, so the amount was a million dollars. Is that what they were chasing? Or more than.
Kiat Low: More than a million dollars?
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: Right here. And I’m not the only one that looked at, looked at it, but if you know, John Riley from Access Loudspeakers. Yes, he looked at it as well.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: Anyway, I just left it. And five, years later, I rang him and he recognized my voice. I only spoken to him twice. Okay. Five years, but he recognized my voice. And he says, is that your kid? I said, yeah. He says, oh, are you interested, Are you still interested in Dante? I said, of course I am. He said, well, you better come over here with a checkbook.
Andrew Hutchison: March Audio. March Audio is a Proud episode sponsor of the not an audiophile podcast with a mission to provide superb technical performance and exceptional sound at modest prices. And Alan March has designed a range of power amplifiers, a preamplifier, and a selection of stunning loudspeakers that you should
Andrew Hutchison: check out now@marchaudio.com and over here was to Adelaide, or where was over here? Okay.
Kiat Low: I flew from Sydney to Adelaide right the next day, and, I just wrote him a check.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: Yeah, great. And I mean, there was still. There was a few legal, issues we had. I don’t know if you want to. If you want to hear all this. There were a few legal issues, I think. I suppose it’s good gossip.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, we like a bit of gossip, right?
Kiat Low: It’s trivia. Right. I don’t know how many of your listeners would, was aware that, the brand Dante was, under litigation from the Australian tax office.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay, so. Which tax office? Because the line. The line’s a bit scratchy. We should,
Kiat Low: ATO Australian.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, the ato. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not. Yeah, I was not some other, you know, not the US or something. No, from Australia.
Kiat Low: Australia. And, and like the old $3 million in back data tax, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow, okay. That’s quite a.
Kiat Low: Quite a lot of, money, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Was that sales tax or something or what?
Kiat Low: What was that, sales tax, basically? Sales tax, yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: What. Anyway, so. But by the time I went to meet James, it was quite a few years after the litigation started and has ended. So I saw. I checked it with, with, what you call it. Essay. Yeah. no longer, valid. No longer, exist. no longer existing. And I said, all right, okay. I’m not going to take over your company. I’m buying your brand here. And so what we did, we went to Deregister Dante Audio.
Kiat Low: And in Adelaide and I flew back to Sydney. I re. Registered Dante Audio.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay.
Kiat Low: So although it’s an iconic old brand, but it was a new entity that,
Andrew Hutchison: Was that a stressful moment where, like, you.
Kiat Low: Yeah, no,
00:15:00
Kiat Low: it wasn’t. It wasn’t a stressful moment because I was 30 or, 25 years younger.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, there is. There is that. Right.
Kiat Low: But you know, when you’re young, you can take my. You can take on the mountain.
Andrew Hutchison: Indeed.
Kiat Low: It doesn’t bother you? You sleep well?
Andrew Hutchison: I mean, it’s very true. I mean, like, it’s like, you know, it’s like racing drivers who make a comeback, you know, later in their mid-30s or something. And they never do any good because
Kiat Low: they, they can’t because they’re worried about it.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, they don’t want to die, but,
Kiat Low: but, but when they’re 22, 23. But they have no idea what dying means.
Andrew Hutchison: No, no, indeed. So, yeah, I understand that. So anyway, what was your next step? Because
Kiat Low: I brought the brand back and, I told Brad about it and he nearly fell off the chair.
Andrew Hutchison: I bet he did. Because you were still doing the Orpheus thing at that point.
Kiat Low: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: So you had a loudspeaker, a. Ah, pretty successful and busy loudspeaker business, manufacturing business at that point.
Kiat Low: Different. Different time. Yeah, it’s a different time. this way they want to know how cheap it is, what the margin is and things like that, you know, I mean, margins are still important, but, you know, they don’t even listen to your speakers and they want to know the margin.
Andrew Hutchison: They want to know the. Who wants to know the margin? What, the retailer or the, the retailers. Oh, that’s it.
Kiat Low: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: What, what you’re offering at a retail margin? Yeah, I, I, I, actually you’re, you’re kind of right. I don’t know what that was, I guess. Was that an Australian thing? That it was just I could sell, sell 10 pairs a week and I need to double my money or something or. Yeah,
Kiat Low: as soon as I, I hear that response, I sort of, I lose interest.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kiat Low: But being, being from a audio file or budget. Audio file entry, audio file, loudspeaker design company. As soon as I get a, ah, response like that, I lose interest and I sort of. Oh, don’t worry about it. What, I mean, you know, well, you
Andrew Hutchison: had a, you had a lot of supportive dealers at that point. you probably didn’t need anymore, but
Kiat Low: we had retailers from, from the middle of nowhere, you know.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well, like me. Hey, did you, did you didn’t really. You told Brad. Did you tell. I suppose you told a few other close confidants, but, in the business,
Kiat Low: what we did was we had, we had a, press release and Australian hi fi. what. Greg, Greg Borman was shocked when he heard that.
Andrew Hutchison: He was. Yeah.
Kiat Low: And and we had, and there was a press, release that was printed on the next issue of, Australian Ice.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. Shock, but excitement as much as shock. I would have thought that, on
Kiat Low: the surface, everybody perceived that Dante was dead in the water.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah, it had been a while.
Kiat Low: Yes, that’s right. But Dante wasn’t dead in the water. But Dante was designing and working with a lot of mastering studios in Australia and overseas. Okay. Yeah. they did have got. They did have some retail designs which John Dunleavy didn’t design. which I had to when I took it away. I don’t know if I should say this. I spent a good few years putting up bushfires.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, you had to. I mean, you took on support of the product effectively, is that right?
Kiat Low: I want support of products.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, you kind of have to because you want to protect your brand. Right?
Kiat Low: Correct. I didn’t have to. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: But no, no, not legally. No. No.
Kiat Low: Yeah. Ah, but I did. Right. And one of it was, there was, ah, there was a couple of models. I mean John was a first order butter design. Right. and we still are. Right. But in between they were shifting. Other designers came in that weren’t first order people. You know, I, mean, I still get people overseas that tells me, don’t worry about the first order. It has to be first order. Or is this Dante? Yeah. There are things in first order that other fourth order can never deliver.
Andrew Hutchison: What do you, what do you feel those are? is that related to. I mean I realize that the Duntech philosophy is time related as much as first order and, and sealed box, obviously
Kiat Low: a seal box and all that, but I think it is directly more related to face coherence.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Okay. Yeah.
Kiat Low: When you listen to a first order face Cohen and loudspeakers, you sit there and say, Jesus, I nearly swore there.
00:20:00
Andrew Hutchison: Well, you, you actually are allowed to swear. So what were you going to say?
Kiat Low: Right? You listen to a first order post Korean Las Vegas. Right? You sit down there, Palmer line. Of course you sit down there. The first thing that comes out of your, out of your mouth, me dead. Is that it?
Andrew Hutchison: And that’s because this, the music just hangs in space.
Kiat Low: Is that, Is that it is hangs in space? The music is talking to you.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: The music is not playing back at you. It is talking to you. Right. And how many times every listener said, Jesus Christ, he is there.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Right. And you. And you have heard it before.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, Well, I, that the probably the. I’ve heard various done texts over the year, over the years, traded a few models in various degrees of excitement. I did hear sovereigns in a client’s home and was very taken with the performance. It had a sense of scale you rarely, rarely, get. But probably the most impressive as far as hanging in space is your little, the original loudspeaker you rebuilt the brand with.
Kiat Low: Well, that’s a story. I’ll get to that.
Andrew Hutchison: But that certainly hung in space. It was a delight.
Kiat Low: The servant has scale.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Right. But I, I, My opinion is that the best sounding vintage Dante is the princess or the crown prince.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: But I mean even I was impressed. I was impressed. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: It has princess quite. Haven’t got that scale, but it’s m. Amazing. Emotionally amazing. Right. And and that’s the I mean the phase first order time align design, topology. Right. And when we did, when we designed the first the, the, the DSM 15 that you heard. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: It did the same thing and every, but the thing is that we struggled to sell that speaker.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Which is surprising because it demonstrates amazingly well, you know, as far as just creating music in the room.
Kiat Low: Yeah. But we struggled to sell it and I, and I decided, look, I need to find out why people are not responding. They like the sound, but they’re not responding with their checkbooks. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay. Yeah.
Kiat Low: The result was that we’re not. This is exact words everybody. When I, when I think of Dante, I’m looking for a big loudspeaker.
Andrew Hutchison: now actually that’s, that’s interesting because when I saw that that was the first thing you did, I thought exactly the same thing. Hang on, you’ve gone off in a different direction, which you kind of hadn’t. Because he’d made smaller speakers. Ryan.
Kiat Low: He has. Yeah. But I think you know what, his, his PCL, 25 was selling exceedingly well. M. Right. The PCL 25 is actually the marquee.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah.
Kiat Low: It’s a crossover. Same drivers. Yes or no. Different driver.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow. Same service, but same same central part.
Kiat Low: Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. Right. And and various other, what you call it, there’s, there’s a few other things, and a smaller one which is the PCL. He has a few PCL5P cell things like that.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Which made a long time before Dante actually became very famous.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: But, and and I get, I still get emails about people wanting a crossover, schematic for a speaker that I didn’t even know existed.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s actually, I mean it’s, it’s a, ah, what you did where you took over, you know, historic and great brand with a profile with quite a lot of product out there and you sort of get this interesting insight into really what the business was really doing. Forget the publicity. You’ve taken this brand over. You now Receive the emails. I mean, you must have received. I mean, the intel that you’ve gotten back over the years must allow you to create quite an interesting picture of how business actually was back in the day, I would imagine.
Kiat Low: I get a lot of funny emails. Bear in mind, John Dunlevy is a little bit, How shall I put it? He’s. He. He’s a genius. That, that, that didn’t. It’s like Leonardo da Vinci.
00:25:00
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, Leonardo never answered his emails. So was John,
Kiat Low: but you know what I mean.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: You know, they live in, He is living ahead of his time.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, he was to some degree, wasn’t he? And I mean, he was clearly. When you say he was a genius and I mean, I guess it’s well documented, but I mean, he was doing some Secret Squirrel stuff for the military, wasn’t he?
Kiat Low: Oh, yeah, of course. That’s why he was here.
Andrew Hutchison: To escape what, potentially being killed or something?
Kiat Low: This is my opinion, although there’s not no confirmation he was sent here. I am 100% sure he was sent here.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: An agreement between the Australian government and the US Government. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: When he came to Australia, his first port of call was Canberra. What? Now, what the. Would somebody want to go to Canberra?
Andrew Hutchison: Well, only politicians, obviously, and the people who work for them.
Kiat Low: Or people work for them or in the spy defense industry.
Andrew Hutchison: Indeed. Okay.
Kiat Low: And he worked there for a little while. he actually started. He actually started making Dante quite famous in. In, in Canberra.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: The next port of call, Adelaide. Now, another. Another statement for me. What the fuck would anybody want to go to? I’m not talking about now. I’m talking about in those days. Right. There’s nothing there.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, there was always wine. Was he into wine?
Kiat Low: Yeah, yeah, of course. Don’t get me. My favorite wine is from South Australia. Right. But you know what I’m talking about. Why would somebody like John Dunlevy go to, to Adelaide?
Andrew Hutchison: Who.
Kiat Low: He worked. He worked for himself, but he was working in consultation with the Australian government, you know, and, he. He was working in ballistics and things like that. Okay, right. That must be something to do with. With, with military. right.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, he had. He was designing some kind of community, what underwater communication system for submarines or something is. Is what the Internet says. But I mean, clearly there’s more to it.
Kiat Low: A lot more than that. Yeah, he, John Dunlevy is actually ex U.S. army, NASA. Now, I don’t know how true this is. I’m told it is 100% true. I’m told by, James that has met John quite a lot, worked with him. And the story is that, the landing on the moon. Right. John had a fair bit of input in the design of the antenna.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, yeah, yeah, I read that somewhere as well. Yes. Yeah.
Kiat Low: And, a lot of those, a lot of the stuff at that stage is classified anyway. Right. Even when I took over dante, they were declassified, but a lot of it is hearsay and things like that. Later I was returned, a manual, a very thick manual.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: the Australian government actually rang me. Oh, we have a copy of, the antenna. Do you still want it?
Andrew Hutchison: Is that right? What stuff? That he’d sent in for a patent or something?
Kiat Low: Yeah, no, his presentation to the Australian.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, to Australian government for something he was trying to sell them. Yeah. Okay.
Kiat Low: Yeah, right. There were five pages, loudspeakers and 16,000 pages, on, on antennas, on antenna. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: How many pages? 16,000. It felt like it.
Kiat Low: A lot of pages. The book about 2 inches thick.
Andrew Hutchison: Wow. Okay, Rodio, well, this is. Anyway, before you hold that thoughts, Kiat, we’ll have a quick break. this is an amazing story. We’ll be back in a couple of seconds. Thanks, folks.
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Andrew Hutchison: All right, we’re back with Kiat Lowe from Duntech. the, the well known, originally Australian. Well, it was always Australian loudspeaker brand, I guess. I guess I say that because John Dunleavy went back to America and started another speaker brand. But we were talking about when he first got here, he went to Canberra. Secret Squirrel stuff. You feel there was like a hangover of his military involvement even though he was here. Or even maybe that was the reason he was here.
Kiat Low: That was the reason. Why would anybody from the US want to come to Australia?
Andrew Hutchison: Well, you do wonder that, don’t you? And look, I actually, I remember thinking that at the time, I mean, maybe he liked kookaburras, lizards and snakes and, and maybe the occasional shark attack. I mean, if he went to Adelaide, he certainly went to the right state for a good shark attack. I mean, they’ve got the best and biggest sharks. But I mean it’s.
00:30:00
Andrew Hutchison: If you need a good shark, you should go to. You should go to South Australian waters. But, but of course, if you need a good wine and cheese, you go to the Adelaide Hills or the Barossa. So he maybe wasn’t Completely silly. Yes. Rolling back to the to the. So you, you, you secured this, you secured the brand, the emails. Emails are coming in asking you for obviously spare parts or something for models that you didn’t know existed and, and sort of.
Kiat Low: So what was the spare parts then we saw speakers.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were selling more spare parts.
Kiat Low: Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: And so what, what timeline did you. We mentioned the, the 15. The, the first model. But just generally looking at what your plans were, I mean you rang up on a whim is the way you tell the story. So I guess you, in your mind you, I mean you had five years to think about what you would do if you ever secured it. Did you have an outline of how you were going to proceed?
Kiat Low: I still want to design the speakers, using what we call the prompt directive.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: And which we still do. And which we did. And we still do. Right. And that would have been one of our biggest impediment because a lot of drive units these days are not very first order friendly.
Andrew Hutchison: Well they’re not because of you know, stiffer cone materials that I guess are more accurate and piston like. But then they have these horrible breakup modes. So.
Kiat Low: What.
Andrew Hutchison: What?
Kiat Low: Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Now bear in mind that the Dante has to be first order 6 decibels per octage. Right. roll off and it rolls off a long way. Right. M. And it has to behave. If it doesn’t behave a little bit you can, you can fix it if it’s a bad mic, but no way.
Andrew Hutchison: Well you can’t, you can’t ever really
Kiat Low: fix it really well there Famous drivers. I don’t know if they, if you. I, I can call them very good. But some very famous drivers. Right. German drivers that we can’t use. My breakup is like oh so this.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. So ah, you. The ones that you had in mind that in the past band were, were what you were looking for you can’t use because of your first order topology. How many, how many octaves are you trying to maintain that? And we are Talking about a 6db acoustic slope is what you obviously need to maintain. so how many octaves you try to achieve that for? 2 or 3.
Kiat Low: I guess we actually with the, with. With our new princess which is almost finished. Right?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: Although Body Things is finished and we have sold a few pairs but we maintained it all the way. Wow.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay.
Kiat Low: 10K.
Andrew Hutchison: Okay. From the, the top of the mid
Kiat Low: range you’re talking about before crossover? Way before crossover.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh okay.
Kiat Low: Yeah. Some of the earlier design not Done by John. Right. And John maintains it. What? And I can tell because I reverse. I got old speakers that I measure and I wanted to know how far John maintained. John really maintained it. Okay. My old way. Right. And for that reason there are many, many drivers we couldn’t use. And that’s what’s holding us back. Right. And some people say, oh, ah, why don’t you design your own drivers? Right. Or design loudspeakers is bad enough. We didn’t design drivers.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. I think people underwrite the complex of that. Anyone who can. And people like Andrew Jones, who can conjure a driver and have it engineered for his purposes, makes him as well. Yeah, we know he’s a smart cookie.
Kiat Low: Yeah, I know, but I know it’s just like he’s designing loudspeakers with with, with, with a software. You know, there was a software that we used to use and Brad and I were Run that, run it. And he says, oh, well, shall we keep going? And I said yeah, let’s see what this stupid thing does. I mean it gives us beautiful response. Right? Beautiful everything. And it requires capacitors like 5000 micro 50 Henry.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, it works beautifully in software, but not in the real world. so you, you. So you wanted to use off the shelf or at least drivers that were. That could be lightly modified by the maker with modification. Yes. Yeah.
Kiat Low: Right. Well, when we look at the driver, we said now this is
00:35:00
Kiat Low: sort of working, but we need, we need this, this and that. And in my we, in my opinion it’s. Well, this is with consultation to the driver manufacturer. And they said that’s no problem. And so we will tell them what we require and they will send us some samples where we test it, you know. And we said now we still need a little bit more, you know, and, and they will send us more samples. Yeah. And we say yeah, that’s it.
Andrew Hutchison: Perfect. Now this of course takes years.
Kiat Low: So you certainly takes years because I mean they’re not sitting there waiting for our, our, our response. You know, they’re moving on with other manufacturing, other design other loudspeakers come other loudspeaker companies, of course. So we’ll have to wait for them to be able to supply us with the test drivers.
Andrew Hutchison: So you. To give a brief outline. So you’re still working on the Princess, you said, Is that right?
Kiat Low: Yeah, our second model was the Senator.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. Now the Senator, that’s a sort of a three ah, driver floor stander Is that correct?
Kiat Low: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah, that’s. Yeah, that’s correct. Three driver floor standing. And that’s a speaker that people from U.S. canada pay me m. Sight unseen, sound unheard.
Andrew Hutchison: Look, I, I was completely enthralled with the way they. I know you say they didn’t sound as good as you would have liked in that room, but I was pretty damn impressed the, the things that you alluded to earlier where. Well, I mentioned music hanging in space, but that was more about the 15s. But these, these did this as well. But there was incredible depth, detail. It was a really, Here’s a good old word. Scintillating performance. It really. They. They do do something magical. And the thing is, they’re not actually, they’re not actually that expensive, are they? What’s the current price of those?
Andrew Hutchison: A pair?
Kiat Low: The retail price?
Andrew Hutchison: Sure. Well, we know the wholesale price is probably 1500 bucks, but what’s the. Yeah, what’s the retail price?
Kiat Low: 1500 bucks.
Andrew Hutchison: That’s all they cost to make. You say you can pay, you can pay for a brand with a sale of ten hundred thousand dollar speakers. Everything’s profit now. What, they’re about 35k or something, I think, aren’t they? Kia?
Kiat Low: The recommended retail is, is, about. It’s about 35.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Okay. It is.
Andrew Hutchison: All right.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well, I Knew they were 30 a few years ago, so I guess they would have gone up a bit. Yep.
Kiat Low: Yeah. You’ve got to bear in mind that cost of air freight, you know, 100 kilos for two speakers, right?
Andrew Hutchison: yeah, I mean we, we toss that figure around like it’s not a lot of money. It’s a hell of a lot of money in some ways. But when you compare it with other very highly engineered loudspeakers in the marketplace,
Kiat Low: that is much more.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, that, that is, that is sharply priced and yeah, and I think delivers a very exciting performance. But we’re not here to sell them. We’re here to talk about them. So, you got that model going as your second one and then what? obviously you’re working on all of the models, I guess in parallel.
Kiat Low: Even when we were designing the Senator, we already started working on our new Princess. Yeah, I call the C5800. Right, right. And we met the first pair which we sent overseas. We made a second pair, which we sold, which it was. I would. I call it pre, production test. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kiat Low: I mean we, we sold it to a customer in Australia, but he was over the moon. I mean, you know. You know, just now I said that about the. I thought the best speaker was the best. Dante was the, the crown prince or the old. Was princess or crown prince.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: Right. This exceeded it. Okay. Exceeded it well over. Right. And this customer was so happy with it. And, and he rang me a few. A couple of weeks ago wanting to know, if we have started making it. I said, well, I’ve been sick for six months. And, I stopped working for six months.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: You.
Andrew Hutchison: You were telling me the other day you got shingles in your face. Now, that is awful. So. No.
Kiat Low: So you’re more than blind.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah. That’s diabolical. But you. But you’re over. That is like.
Kiat Low: Well, I’m over the shingles part, but
00:40:00
Kiat Low: I’m still, A little, It’s actually improving with my. What they call post herpetic neurology, which is, the results of damaged nerves.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. It doesn’t sound like a lot of fun. So you’ve had a hell of a time, but fortunately was very painful.
Kiat Low: It was some. Feels like somebody putting a blowtorch on you and slowly increased the. The. The gas. Right. The thing.
Andrew Hutchison: The thing with that analogy is that even just having the blowtorch with the gas turned down is going to be quite painful. But then it gets worse because you’re increasing the gas.
Kiat Low: You. I could feel the skin peeling off.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, crikey. All right, let’s, let’s.
Kiat Low: And I used to scream in pain. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh, God. Okay.
Kiat Low: And that was for the first two months, you know, and things started getting better. And I, I still get a little bit now, but I can put up with it. And, and, and then because of that, I’m back working again on. On my. On the speakers.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, we’re all happy to hear that because that’s, Yeah, that’s. That’s awful. I mean, I, I can’t even imagine it. it’s a much under. Undervalued. not undervalued. Under. Regarded as being a nasty thing. Shingles. It’s, It’s, super unpleasant and getting it in the head is, Anywhere is super dangerous for all sorts
Kiat Low: of hearing and eyesight. Your ear.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. But you avoided any permanent damage to your hearing and eyesight? Yes.
Kiat Low: I have a cousin which is a retired gp, and I. And I told him about. I have a. I have a funny habit of sending pictures to GPs and friends of my.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, you think it’s funny.
Kiat Low: Well, I did even the GP Thought it was funny, right? I mean, sometimes. I mean, when it was funny, this case wasn’t funny. I’ll tell you the funniest ones. look, I’m a very blunt person.
Andrew Hutchison: What?
Kiat Low: And I’m a very blunt person. I, I call it Spider Spade.
Andrew Hutchison: Indeed you do.
Kiat Low: Right. And I have no hesitation. I, I have no hesitation in, in admitting to a m. Mistake. And let’s see what, how we can fix it. Right. Instead of sitting on the sideways feeling sorry for yourself. Of course I still feel sorry for myself, you know, but I’m always up to looking at how, how to, how to resolve the problem. See, my background is that I’m an architect, right? Yes. And in design, in the designer’s mind, the designer is always about resolving problems.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. Yeah.
Kiat Low: And, and I applied the same mentality to loudspeaker designs.
Kiat Low: Right. There’s an issue. How do we fix it? But everything is fixable, right?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: Yeah. Anyway, the funny one is that one day I had a case of hemorrhoids. Now how do I fix that?
Andrew Hutchison: Well, the first thing you do is send a photo. Apparently.
Kiat Low: I absolutely, I absolutely did. I put my phone down there, took a picture and and I said gee, that looks terrible. And I, and I said to, I went to the doctor and, and I showed him that first time I had a doctor laughing, you know, people on the ground laughing. This is so funny, you know, and this must be for my association.
Andrew Hutchison: It could be something to do with it.
Kiat Low: That’s something that he would have done too.
Andrew Hutchison: Oh dear. We should.
Kiat Low: I guess it’s not bowel cancer.
Andrew Hutchison: Well
Kiat Low: indeed.
Andrew Hutchison: dear. Okay, I’m getting better. I think we were talking about loudspeakers.
Kiat Low: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah, but this is all. Look, loudspeakers. Wanting the, the people’s personality behind it is the other.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, can we just, can we just We’ll just get the comedic stories over and done with because there’s one you reminded me of the other day, which I reckon you’ve told me before because you were in business with Brad Sirhan for some years and many years. The story that you tell actually I think
00:45:00
Andrew Hutchison: was before you knew him. So I guess Brad must have told you the story. But the one where Brad enters the Chinese restaurant for an important meeting with
Kiat Low: a potential, with a potential Malaysian distributor.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: And Brad is m. The absent minded professor, right?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: Do you want me to repeat the story?
Andrew Hutchison: I think you should.
Kiat Low: Well, the night before he went to Bed. He was getting into bed. So he. So he took off his clothes and instead of taking his trousers off, taking his undies off, he put his hand on the side and removed both at the same time, you see.
Andrew Hutchison: Saves time.
Kiat Low: Ah. And he left it on the chair.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: And the next morning it was a bit late for the meeting, knowing Brad. What?
Andrew Hutchison: That’s unusual.
Kiat Low: Anyway, you can’t. Come on, you know that. Anyway, so instead of putting a new underwear on. Right. No, he did. He did put a new underwear, but he forgot. He’s forgotten. The other underwear was still in there. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Sitting on top of his pants.
Kiat Low: Yeah, sitting inside his pants. Right. And it was all right until he got to the restaurant. And and as he was walking in, the M. Distributor was sitting at the table there waiting for him for, for lunch. And as he had a, waiter following him, and as he was just about to sit down, the waiter sort of squatted over and picked up underwear. Excuse me, sir, is this yours? It’s fallen out of one leg of trousers,
Andrew Hutchison: out of the bottom of the leg. And so he picked it up with
Kiat Low: a chopstick, put it into his pocket and the Malaysian just threw the cackle away laughing. And we still talk about it. I just.
Andrew Hutchison: The bit that I found amusing last time you told me was the bit where the waiter was coming after him with the. With his jocks hanging off the end of a chopstick. Are these, are these yours?
Kiat Low: Are ah, this yours, sir? He looked at it, he looked at his trousers and. And with that answer he picked it up, put it to his pocket.
Andrew Hutchison: yeah, he must have had some interesting times. Hey, we’re going to take a quick break, Kiat and we will be right back with actual loudspeakers. And hear where you’re up to today with the Duntech range. Back in a sec with Kia Lowe.
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Andrew Hutchison: back with Kiat low on the line. The sound quality from Kiat’s phone is mediocre, but understandable. We apologise for that. it’s how he likes to talk. Probably something to do with that six months worth of hell you’ve been through. we won’t talk about it anymore or any of your other medical photos. But but you’re feeling, you’re feeling pretty good. So you’ve been. I mean I think to put some texture on this. you gained control of the brand a long time ago. I guess it’s more than. Well you said 25 years but I feel like it’s more than that. Was it not.
Kiat Low: It’s a bit over 25.
Andrew Hutchison: Bit over, yeah. Okay. So around the turn of the century makes it sound.
Kiat Low: And the reason. And the reason I did that.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: It’s because I enjoyed Dante and I and I adored the brain. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: And it was going to go down. I decided to make the commitment to save the brain.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: But I needed to know that we can, we can design speakers along that. Which, which we knew anyway. Right. Yeah.
Andrew Hutchison: So you. The. The aforementioned Sovereigns that appeared in the TV segment that kind of put the brand on the world stage back in the 80s. that model, a new version of that does. Is. Is this something that’s happening or what? Where is the Sovereign in.
Kiat Low: I, I like, I like to think so. But having said that it. Look, the design is in my mind.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: Right. I roughly know the driver I’m going to use.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, we’re
00:50:00
Andrew Hutchison: talking for the base driver I presume because the mid range drivers and tweeters are in the bag effectively.
Kiat Low: Yeah. Not everything. Yeah. Right. And I want to know how the thing will look visually because it, it has to, it has to look as good as itself.
Andrew Hutchison: Well can I just say, can I say something on that? And. But in the people who have been listening for an hour already, if you haven’t gone and looked at the Duntech website and looked at the models that you have completed, the re. Redesigned ones, they look there are some of the best looking loudspeakers on the planet. Which might sound a bit of a bold statement but that is a They are Particularly the bigger one which. What is the model of the third one that you did.
Kiat Low: Our new princess. Your princess. Man. What a.
Andrew Hutchison: What a cool looking thing that is. So getting back to. Sorry, I just, just people should go to. And what’s the website? Dantech. Just dot com. Easy as that. So back to the Sovereign. So you’ve got it in your mind, you know how you want it to look.
Kiat Low: Correct. And. But bear in mind I’m 74.
Andrew Hutchison: You don’t sound it. You sound more sort of early 80s. But it’s it’s you Know that’s. There is a delay. There is a delay on the line. that is a problem. And how do you. I don’t want to go sideways about age, but, I mean, is it. Is it a.
Kiat Low: Is.
Andrew Hutchison: I mean, your brain is sharp as attack, obviously. So is the. Is it. What’s. What’s the limitation? Just your endurance through the day, I guess. Is that the thing?
Kiat Low: Right. Yeah. I, use, I used to be able to just push the princess around by myself.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes. You want to really, at some point, take it easy. Right. Stop carrying around heavy speakers and trying to work out how to make them work.
Kiat Low: I took it over when. When I was. Before. Before I became 50.
Andrew Hutchison: I was gonna say you were in your 40s. I mean, that. That throws. It throws a light on a couple of things. It’s amazing how quickly you become in your 40s to now. I’m 74.
Kiat Low: That’s kind of. Right.
Andrew Hutchison: It’s kind of scary. But.
Kiat Low: Yeah, so I have had offers, but, but that was. Offers. I’m actually looking for somebody that can take over. Oh.
Andrew Hutchison: Ah, you are?
Kiat Low: Yeah. But it has to be. It has to be an entity. It can’t be. It has to be an entity. People with motive. ideally it be an entity that already own certain brands that want to add on to another. Add another iconic brand onto it.
Andrew Hutchison: Yes.
Kiat Low: And. And increase its prominence.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah.
Kiat Low: You could. You. You could make. You could make anything besides a microwave oven, right?
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: I mean. I mean, it’s limitless.
Andrew Hutchison: I don’t think finding a buyer should really be a problem. I mean, you’ve got probably 90% of the, of the hard work is done. You’ve got a great brand that’s well regarded and well known, and then you’ve got a bunch of fantastic models. And what you and I both know, and not so much the casual listener, is just the amount of drawings and details and stuff. Stuff that. The work that you’ve gone to get those three new models happening. I mean, can you put a amount of hours that you’ve spent. I mean, we know it’s taken 25 years.
Kiat Low: I’ll tell you what I’ll spend. I have spent over a million dollars to keep the thing going.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, there’s that as well, of course.
Kiat Low: Just.
Andrew Hutchison: We don’t want to talk about that. But what about the man Hours.
Kiat Low: But yes, you see, hours is whenever I’m not asleep. I’m thinking of Dante.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. For the last 25 years.
Kiat Low: Correct.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. I don’t know how many hours that is. I’m going to calculate in front of me. It’s a hell of a lot.
Kiat Low: Yeah. My mind is always on Dante. Not, not what I can get out of it, but that. What I have asked myself that question. Why did I take it over?
Andrew Hutchison: You’re constantly asking yourself why and cursing.
Kiat Low: Not, not in regret.
Andrew Hutchison: No, no, no.
Kiat Low: But to remind me why I took.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. To keep yourself focused. Yes.
Kiat Low: Yeah. And because I love the brand.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah.
Kiat Low: It is, it’s an. It is an important brand. It. It is a brand that has history.
Andrew Hutchison: Well, it. On that front. Okay. I’ll say a couple of things. It has history like almost no other Australian loudspeaker brand. And it’s got a bit of a pedigree. And you know what else it’s got, and that’s down to you, is just the most stunning industrial design of any Australian loudspeaker. and of course when I say Australian, I’m saying that
00:55:00
Andrew Hutchison: you know, really many, probably some of the best industrial design of loudspeakers made anywhere in the world. But the, the care and the detailed nature of that design and the way you’ve had the cabinets made and I know that’s been a trial in a itself over the years to get someone to make something to your exacting standards. When you see them in the flesh, they are perfect.
Kiat Low: Absolutely correct.
Andrew Hutchison: Very, very hard to achieve.
Kiat Low: I agree with that.
Andrew Hutchison: As you should now a job incredibly well done. Kiat. I, I remain just stunned and impressed with the quality of the workmanship and the wonder of the sound. And I hope that you can find someone to the right person, the right entity as you say, that has the skills to take it on.
Kiat Low: It can’t be a person because you
Andrew Hutchison: need more time than one person can put into it.
Kiat Low: Exactly. Absolutely correct the brand. Dante, half your battle is down. Is over.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah, well, that’s right. And that’s the bit that I mean we could go on and on about it but for those that have tried, you know, I speak from first hand experience. You know, having your brand accepted is is a long term battle struggle basically.
Kiat Low: Absolutely, absolutely. Especially on the international stage.
Andrew Hutchison: Peter Como said to us in a previous episode, which we’ll notate on the
Andrew Hutchison: Well I’ll put a link to.
Andrew Hutchison: On the, on the web page for this episode. exactly. That he, he laughed when I suggested you could, that Iag could start another brand.
Andrew Hutchison: He just laughed.
Andrew Hutchison: He’s like, well, only a crazy man would start a new brand. It was just, it’s just he considered it to be virtually impossible.
Kiat Low: I agree. Totally. I agree.
Andrew Hutchison: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, hey, I think we’ve covered it. Kiat, I’m so impressed. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You’ve, you’ve unearthed some stories that people I’m sure have not heard. and give us, given us a real insight into how you’ve. Well, the task, the huge task. And of course, you’ve done incredibly well to get three models completed.
Andrew Hutchison: And they are stunning, as I’ve mentioned.
Andrew Hutchison: But like I say, we’re not here to sell the product. But actually, as it turns out, the news flash is we’re here to sell the brand, as it turns out. I, I didn’t realize.
Andrew Hutchison: yeah. So thank you, Kiat. Low Duntech, the famous loudspeaker brand that he has rebuilt, from, from, I guess from a place where it was sitting on the shelf to some degree, back to a force. Ah, Sending loudspeakers all around the world. Thanks again for your time, Kiyette.
Kiat Low: Thank you. Pleasure.
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Kiat Low: Com.
00:58:19